My FLI (Fine Line Imports) Experience (posted 02-23-2006)
02-23-2006 | 08:32 PM
#61
Look here, it's irrelevant whether FLI has had satisfied customers. I have met a couple people who had their motors swapped there and love it.
HOWEVER, it is quite obvious that the tuner consistantly ran dangerous a/f's throughout the day and KNEW ABOUT IT, and did not stop the tune. (this is of upmost importance)
I will assume that the tuner was having a bad day. Maybe his family and his dog were hit by meteors and his house burned down so he was so frustrated he just had to get that tune right even though it's clear he did not have the capability to do so. That's alright, even the best of us mess up and do something really dumb once in a while.
AS A BUSINESS you have to take responsibility for things like this. Even if there's no damage, if you messed up the tune and then after performing leakdown and not discovering anything wrong, DECIDE FOR APARENTLY NO REASON TO SEND THE MOTOR TO CRAWFORD, you have to take responsibility for the whole thing. If you take your car in for warranty and the dealership has a minor screw and subsequently the dealership decides to do a test drive in order to evaluate their potential screwup, and then damaged the car during the test drive (IE more labor and parts required than originally intended.... and the reason for that additional cost in the FIRST PLACE was due to the fault of the business) the dealership has to take responsibility, not charge you MORE.
Basically what doesn't add up is them inspecting the motor for possible damage THEY might have caused, and charging the customer for it. If you make a mistake, everything you do to remedy that mistake can't be charged to the customer, even if the motor turns out alright in the end (and if you knew all along the motor was good, you should not have sent it to Crawford) This seems to be where FLI is at fault
Again, I am not here to point fingers and I don't care how great FLI is or how bad the customer is it doesn't matter. The fact that this has gone public and many people are going to withold their business from FLI, means FLI did something wrong. Remember the cardinal rule of doing business: the customer is always right. If you try to debate about the customer being wrong, you are already wrong. That's just how the world works. And that's why running a successful business is so damn HARD. Running a business is hard because you just have to bite the bullet sometimes. (Unless of course you are that certain tuner that formerly existed that had a posse to back them up. If you want to argue with the customer, you'd better have a posse)
HOWEVER, it is quite obvious that the tuner consistantly ran dangerous a/f's throughout the day and KNEW ABOUT IT, and did not stop the tune. (this is of upmost importance)
I will assume that the tuner was having a bad day. Maybe his family and his dog were hit by meteors and his house burned down so he was so frustrated he just had to get that tune right even though it's clear he did not have the capability to do so. That's alright, even the best of us mess up and do something really dumb once in a while.
AS A BUSINESS you have to take responsibility for things like this. Even if there's no damage, if you messed up the tune and then after performing leakdown and not discovering anything wrong, DECIDE FOR APARENTLY NO REASON TO SEND THE MOTOR TO CRAWFORD, you have to take responsibility for the whole thing. If you take your car in for warranty and the dealership has a minor screw and subsequently the dealership decides to do a test drive in order to evaluate their potential screwup, and then damaged the car during the test drive (IE more labor and parts required than originally intended.... and the reason for that additional cost in the FIRST PLACE was due to the fault of the business) the dealership has to take responsibility, not charge you MORE.
Basically what doesn't add up is them inspecting the motor for possible damage THEY might have caused, and charging the customer for it. If you make a mistake, everything you do to remedy that mistake can't be charged to the customer, even if the motor turns out alright in the end (and if you knew all along the motor was good, you should not have sent it to Crawford) This seems to be where FLI is at fault
Again, I am not here to point fingers and I don't care how great FLI is or how bad the customer is it doesn't matter. The fact that this has gone public and many people are going to withold their business from FLI, means FLI did something wrong. Remember the cardinal rule of doing business: the customer is always right. If you try to debate about the customer being wrong, you are already wrong. That's just how the world works. And that's why running a successful business is so damn HARD. Running a business is hard because you just have to bite the bullet sometimes. (Unless of course you are that certain tuner that formerly existed that had a posse to back them up. If you want to argue with the customer, you'd better have a posse)
Last edited by verc; 02-23-2006 at 08:38 PM.
02-23-2006 | 08:39 PM
#62
And remember the above was first assuming the tuner was just having a bad day, and then assuming the customer was at fault, which are some pretty far fetched assumptions it seems from what's been presented.
02-23-2006 | 08:43 PM
#63
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When I heard the block was going out to Crawford it thought the same thing. 1. Verify if the test results were legit, if the results matched, send it off. 2. The same conditions were not present during each of the tests, I believed this was why FLI tore the motor down to take a closer look. 3. The Crawford issue is sketchy, see the only one who could verify if FLI caused damage to the motor would be Crawford. If FLI were to tear down the block Crawford would wash his hands of it. Quirt had to be the determining factor on whether the damage if any was Crawfords doing or FLI's. It turned out the was no damage to the motor. As i stated this is a good thing. At that point FLI was clear in my book. I still don't like Miles, but that another story. FLI caused no damage, they saved face with me by taking the steps they did. I even said I was sorry for giving them a hard time. This is what I get for being a concerned customer.
02-23-2006 | 08:46 PM
#64
verc - i was about the write pretty much the same.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
02-23-2006 | 08:47 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by verc
Look here, it's irrelevant whether FLI has had satisfied customers. I have met a couple people who had their motors swapped there and love it.
HOWEVER, it is quite obvious that the tuner consistantly ran dangerous a/f's throughout the day and KNEW ABOUT IT, and did not stop the tune. (this is of upmost importance)
I will assume that the tuner was having a bad day. Maybe his family and his dog were hit by meteors and his house burned down so he was so frustrated he just had to get that tune right even though it's clear he did not have the capability to do so. That's alright, even the best of us mess up and do something really dumb once in a while.
AS A BUSINESS you have to take responsibility for things like this. Even if there's no damage, if you messed up the tune and then after performing leakdown and not discovering anything wrong, DECIDE FOR APARENTLY NO REASON TO SEND THE MOTOR TO CRAWFORD, you have to take responsibility for the whole thing. If you take your car in for warranty and the dealership has a minor screw and subsequently the dealership decides to do a test drive in order to evaluate their potential screwup, and then damaged the car during the test drive (IE more labor and parts required than originally intended.... and the reason for that additional cost in the FIRST PLACE was due to the fault of the business) the dealership has to take responsibility, not charge you MORE.
Basically what doesn't add up is them inspecting the motor for possible damage THEY might have caused, and charging the customer for it. If you make a mistake, everything you do to remedy that mistake can't be charged to the customer, even if the motor turns out alright in the end (and if you knew all along the motor was good, you should not have sent it to Crawford) This seems to be where FLI is at fault
Again, I am not here to point fingers and I don't care how great FLI is or how bad the customer is it doesn't matter. The fact that this has gone public and many people are going to withold their business from FLI, means FLI did something wrong. Remember the cardinal rule of doing business: the customer is always right. If you try to debate about the customer being wrong, you are already wrong. That's just how the world works. And that's why running a successful business is so damn HARD. Running a business is hard because you just have to bite the bullet sometimes. (Unless of course you are that certain tuner that formerly existed that had a posse to back them up. If you want to argue with the customer, you'd better have a posse)
HOWEVER, it is quite obvious that the tuner consistantly ran dangerous a/f's throughout the day and KNEW ABOUT IT, and did not stop the tune. (this is of upmost importance)
I will assume that the tuner was having a bad day. Maybe his family and his dog were hit by meteors and his house burned down so he was so frustrated he just had to get that tune right even though it's clear he did not have the capability to do so. That's alright, even the best of us mess up and do something really dumb once in a while.
AS A BUSINESS you have to take responsibility for things like this. Even if there's no damage, if you messed up the tune and then after performing leakdown and not discovering anything wrong, DECIDE FOR APARENTLY NO REASON TO SEND THE MOTOR TO CRAWFORD, you have to take responsibility for the whole thing. If you take your car in for warranty and the dealership has a minor screw and subsequently the dealership decides to do a test drive in order to evaluate their potential screwup, and then damaged the car during the test drive (IE more labor and parts required than originally intended.... and the reason for that additional cost in the FIRST PLACE was due to the fault of the business) the dealership has to take responsibility, not charge you MORE.
Basically what doesn't add up is them inspecting the motor for possible damage THEY might have caused, and charging the customer for it. If you make a mistake, everything you do to remedy that mistake can't be charged to the customer, even if the motor turns out alright in the end (and if you knew all along the motor was good, you should not have sent it to Crawford) This seems to be where FLI is at fault
Again, I am not here to point fingers and I don't care how great FLI is or how bad the customer is it doesn't matter. The fact that this has gone public and many people are going to withold their business from FLI, means FLI did something wrong. Remember the cardinal rule of doing business: the customer is always right. If you try to debate about the customer being wrong, you are already wrong. That's just how the world works. And that's why running a successful business is so damn HARD. Running a business is hard because you just have to bite the bullet sometimes. (Unless of course you are that certain tuner that formerly existed that had a posse to back them up. If you want to argue with the customer, you'd better have a posse)
02-23-2006 | 08:49 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by En3D
verc - i was about the write pretty much the same.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
02-23-2006 | 08:50 PM
#67
Also from reading the post more carefully, I noticed that FLI dangled this "warranty" in front of the customer.
FLI DID NOT BUILD THE MOTOR. It makes perfect sense that if you built a motor you would dangle a warranty saying its void if you don't get it tuned by them as well (like Crawford/I-Speed does... wait... that doesn't make perfect sense. o well let's assume it did). This protects your business from people who blow their engines and then blame it on you. But FLI did not build that motor, they installed it. FLI could have never been liable for a motor they didn't build - even if the motor blew up it would very clear whether it was the tuner or the installer's fault. It seems that the warranty was dangled in front of the customer in order to keep business.
FLI DID NOT BUILD THE MOTOR. It makes perfect sense that if you built a motor you would dangle a warranty saying its void if you don't get it tuned by them as well (like Crawford/I-Speed does... wait... that doesn't make perfect sense. o well let's assume it did). This protects your business from people who blow their engines and then blame it on you. But FLI did not build that motor, they installed it. FLI could have never been liable for a motor they didn't build - even if the motor blew up it would very clear whether it was the tuner or the installer's fault. It seems that the warranty was dangled in front of the customer in order to keep business.
02-23-2006 | 08:59 PM
#68
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Did you ever get anything in writing from Crawford stating the engine was fine?? or even the test results? Who purchased the motor from Crawford FLI or you??
02-23-2006 | 09:07 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by verc
Also from reading the post more carefully, I noticed that FLI dangled this "warranty" in front of the customer.
FLI DID NOT BUILD THE MOTOR. It makes perfect sense that if you built a motor you would dangle a warranty saying its void if you don't get it tuned by them as well (like Crawford/I-Speed does... wait... that doesn't make perfect sense. o well let's assume it did). This protects your business from people who blow their engines and then blame it on you. But FLI did not build that motor, they installed it. FLI could have never been liable for a motor they didn't build - even if the motor blew up it would very clear whether it was the tuner or the installer's fault. It seems that the warranty was dangled in front of the customer in order to keep business.
FLI DID NOT BUILD THE MOTOR. It makes perfect sense that if you built a motor you would dangle a warranty saying its void if you don't get it tuned by them as well (like Crawford/I-Speed does... wait... that doesn't make perfect sense. o well let's assume it did). This protects your business from people who blow their engines and then blame it on you. But FLI did not build that motor, they installed it. FLI could have never been liable for a motor they didn't build - even if the motor blew up it would very clear whether it was the tuner or the installer's fault. It seems that the warranty was dangled in front of the customer in order to keep business.
02-23-2006 | 09:11 PM
#71
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 44
From: Santa Rosa, Ca
Car Info: Black '02 2.5RS
I've had nothing but good experiences at FLI myself. Miles, Steve and Ryan are all fantastic! They all give me good sound advice on how to mod my '02 2.5RS (I ask all three of them what they think and they all say almost the same things). They have excellent customer service. I beleive they really go above and beyond, and not just for specific customers, everyone I've run into has had good service from them(yes that's right face to face encounters not just internet posts). They went above and beyond for me when I got into a car accident and they came and picked me up, helped get the tow truck, and even helped me with insurance bull****. That is my review for FLI, and I will continue taking my car there with full confidence in their work. I'm 100% confident in all three of them. THANKS FLI!
And yes this right here ^ is a reiveiw Jeff, all the bull**** you and your little cronies have been posting is not reveiw it is here-say slander mother ****er! You need to get out from behind your computer and get severly owned, I am happy to do it too. You are a dishonest ****! a pathalogical liar really
And yes this right here ^ is a reiveiw Jeff, all the bull**** you and your little cronies have been posting is not reveiw it is here-say slander mother ****er! You need to get out from behind your computer and get severly owned, I am happy to do it too. You are a dishonest ****! a pathalogical liar really
02-23-2006 | 09:16 PM
#72
Originally Posted by En3D
verc - i was about the write pretty much the same.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
FLI - why would you not reinstall a motor that you deinstalled? Even if it was authorized, this is was done within the context of "warranty" work that you said would be voided if someone else tuned the car. looks like the trouble started with the tune.
If this was me and during the investigative leakdown, if I found something wrong then it is Crawford who is at fault (they built the engine). If there was no negative results of the leakdown, why pull a perfectly good motor? without conferring with the customer and the company who built it.
and by saying that you don't want to do business b/c the customer no longer trust you or what ever. sorry, i'll bet that won't hold up in court. you are legally obligated to "warranty any part and labor" that you sold to the customer directly.
Looks like the warranty was void as soon as gruppe s touched it. So the motor was authorized to be pulled to see if there was anything wrong with it, and great, nothing was wrong with it! Why would putting the motor back in be put on them? Yes they took it out but it was authorized, and now he doesn't want to pay to put the motor back in which is understandable, but fli doesn't owe him anything, they installed the motor once, he only paid for one motor install, not two.
02-23-2006 | 09:27 PM
#73
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Originally Posted by blkbetty02
I've had nothing but good experiences at FLI myself. Miles, Steve and Ryan are all fantastic! They all give me good sound advice on how to mod my '02 2.5RS (I ask all three of them what they think and they all say almost the same things). They have excellent customer service. I beleive they really go above and beyond, and not just for specific customers, everyone I've run into has had good service from them(yes that's right face to face encounters not just internet posts). They went above and beyond for me when I got into a car accident and they came and picked me up, helped get the tow truck, and even helped me with insurance bull****. That is my review for FLI, and I will continue taking my car there with full confidence in their work. I'm 100% confident in all three of them. THANKS FLI!
And yes this right here ^ is a reiveiw Jeff, all the bull**** you and your little cronies have been posting is not reveiw it is here-say slander mother ****er! You need to get out from behind your computer and get severly owned, I am happy to do it too. You are a dishonest ****! a pathalogical liar really
And yes this right here ^ is a reiveiw Jeff, all the bull**** you and your little cronies have been posting is not reveiw it is here-say slander mother ****er! You need to get out from behind your computer and get severly owned, I am happy to do it too. You are a dishonest ****! a pathalogical liar really
Just to credit myself
I have no cronies.
Here-Say? This is about me, my car and FLI right?
Internet call outs are lame. Shoot me a pm if you want my address
There is not one statement I have made. I would not swear to under oath.
