Salty

iTrader: (14)

Funny... that's the exact reason why I won't be voting for Kerry. Except mine is actually based on him leaving men behind in Vietnam. Nothing to see here...

Unregistered

Oh, please talk about taking what Bush feeds you hook line and sinker. For gods sake tell me who did Jr. save during his "service"? There is NO comparison in service between John Kerry's and Jr's. Even McCain will agree to that, and I love how everyone forgets that the same tactics been used against Kerry's war record where the same used against McCain's when he ran agaisnt Jr. So if thats your reason I would suggest you read "Bush's Brain." Atleast understand what kinda bull**** they are spewing about John Kerry. Another thing, please tell me who did he leave behind?

And your right there is nothing to see here...

Salty

iTrader: (14)

During John Kerry's "Hanoi Jane Days," he testified before Congress that American soldiers had "raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs ... poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam." He has never named anyone who committed these atrocious acts and admits that he never witnessed these war crimes. He went out of his way to speak on every Vietnam Veteran's behalf which belittled their name and left any remaining POW/MIA soldiers for dead.

When he became a senator, Kerry began pushing normalization of trade with Vietnam. He founded the Senate Select Committee for POW/MIA Affairs because of this and became chairman of the committee. In order to normalize trade, the Vietnamese government would have to prove that its hands were now clean with regard to POW/MIAs. He claimed there wasn't any possibility of survivors in order to lift embargos. Truth is, there were many POW/MIA soldiers still in Vietnam and/or unaccounted for. There's still JPAC freedom fighters: http://www.jpac.pacom.mil/Vietnam.htm (I personally know a couple of them) that are searching for Vietnam Survivors to this day. That's who he abandoned you idiot!

EricDaRed81

iTrader: (10)

Are you saying it was wrong for him to show the horrible things we did in Vietnam?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Without having any first hand knowledge of the fact and for speaking at the expense of abandoned Veterans because of it, Absolutely.

EricDaRed81

iTrader: (10)

Do you think that American soldiers did any of the things mentioned?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

*Cues OLMEK*

Unregistered

So your saying that this didn't happen because he didn't name names? Im sure my friend Thang Tran and his family would love to hear this one. He spoke the truth so that belittles them? Not to mention the tons of children with ill formed limbs because of the type of weapons we used there. (My friend Thang's hands and ears are deformed slightly.) He spoke out on the actions of people, if that belittles them, then it belittles him.


Actually Kerry did not "found" the Committee, the creator was actually Sen. Robert Smith. Kerry was the Chairman of the Committee but he wasn't the Chair because he "founded" it. Also I love how you fail to mention that John McCain was also on that committee. Are you telling me your also fualting McCain for "leaving" behind those POW/MIA soldiers? Because if you say Kerry did then so did McCain. McCain a POW himself, you actually think he would let others suffer the same fate he did? Are you judging McCain's action as a Survivor who went through hell, and would turn his back on possible POW/MIA soldiers in Vietnam? Your kidding yourself greatly if you believe, McCain would let this "slip" by him when he was on the Committee himself. But hey, Im sure you know more than two senators that where in the committee and that both served during the war. And here is a nice little link that tells what the Committee concluded. http://www.aiipowmia.com/ssc/ssc51.html so I'm missing something here where does it say to stop looking for answers and for the POW/MIA? Get your facts straight you idiot!

FUNKED1

I'm voting for Badnarik.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I'm not saying that certain war crimes didn't happen but a) He admitted to never seeing them first hand; b)That said, he stereotyped every Vietnam Veteran which made it that much harder for them to come home; c) It also belittled the majority that followed orders and were trying to do good in the country.

Furthermore, I’m sorry if your Vietnamese friend has damage from Napalm but that’s entirely different that the accusations spewed by Kerry. Napalm was ordnance in a time of war and is totally different than war crimes.

IBtheygotattackedwithsomethingotherthannapalmnow.



I forgot to add founder of Vietnam Veterans of America in that particular sentence and chair man in 1991 of the Senate Committee, sorry...

Nope. I knew McCain was also on that committee but they took different courses of action within. It doesn't change the fact that what Kerry what I mentioned above didn't happen regardless if I got one fact twisted. Sorry, this was coming from memory, not a URL.

Although McCain finally stepped in to say that bashing Kerry's Vietnam Service had gone too far, McCain complained that testimony by Kerry was "the most effective propaganda my North Vietnamese captors had to use against us." They were both on the same committee but weren't for the same cause.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

But your buddy W was in Texas not serving in the national guard (even though he was supposed to be). So what's better? "Abondoning" troops, like you're saying, or sheltering yourself from the whole ordeal and never having to answer about it? If you're using this argument to say Bush is a better option than Kerry 9in terms of military history), it's weak because Bush didn't do a damn thing to help out the vets, POWs, or MIAs.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Abandoning troops is far greater than sheltering yourself from the ordeal. Here's the icing on the cake... you can't prove anything on Bush military record. If you want to dodge the draft you become a paper boy -or- cook, not a pilot!

I'd like to see you volunteer for the service, get selected for a pilot slot and complete the course. I bet you fail in week one...

Here's another kicker... your argument is completely flawed because Clinton completely dodged the draft. So what's better, MVWRX... "Abondoning" troops, or sheltering yourself from the whole ordeal and never having to answer about it?

psoper

Oh yes I can-
here's what people who didn't serve with him have to say!

http://www.desertersfortruth.com/play.htm

Unregistered

War crimes happened you don't deny this then? So he says this and this is wrong of him? How did him stating this make it much harder for them to come home? And he wasn't alone in stating this. Your giving what he said WAY to much weight. He served during vietnam too, so I fail to grasp how trying to bring other soldiers home is a bad thing, since that was what he was protesting for... Or do you think we did the right thing going to Vietnam?

Do you know the workings of a Senate Committee? You can't really go different courses. You have individuals come in and testifie to you. And then you ask questions. Also you bring in different experts to the Committee. You then form your conclusion. How many POW/MIA have been found since 1991? You do know that McCain supported Kerry's actions during the Committee correct? Like I said again why would he do this if Kerry was doing the wrong thing for POW/MIA. In short he wouldn't and you know this.

McCain stepped in because Jr. did the same exact thing to him. Maybe you missed it in 2000 elections but if you go back to the Republican debates you will see McCain telling Jr. off for what he was spreading about him. These are the same things. And not based on FACT, simply put Kerry didn't leave anyone behind. Because he would of had to do it with every senator in the committee together, and concidering McCain was part of it....well I'll let you come to the reasonable conclusion.

On top of that your quote on what McCain stated is mis-representing what he said if not right out lieing. '"All through this period," wrote McCain, his captors were "bombarding us with anti-war quotes from people in high places back in Washington. This was the most effective propaganda they had to use against us."' Where is Kerry in that quote, anyone see it? I sure don't. It was about all the protestors going up to the Committee. In fact the one that was quoted the most was "Sen. Ted Kennedy, was "quoted again and again" by jailers at the Hanoi Hilton, McCain said." So they didn't just use Kerry statements against him. You are pointing a finger at a man saying he caused all these things to happen. Which is not true at all.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

It'd be one thing if he became a pilot. But he didn't...he went AWOL. My argument is not the one in the spot light here...I never said Kerry was better than Bush in terms of military record. You, however, were contending that Bush was better than Kerry in this respect. My pointing out that while Kerry was fighting Bush was f***ing around at home has nothing to do with Clinton. It has to do with the fact that you demonize Kerry for his actions during and after the Vietnam war, but ignore the fact that Bush was the type of person I'm sure you'd hate if he did the same thing right now instead of in the past.

BTW, you're right. I wouldn't make it to being a pilot. In fact, they wouldn't even let me try. Not because I'm too dumb...or too unathletic. I'm actually too tall to be a pilot in the military.