religion argument
03-02-2009, 12:54 PM
#556
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The Christian God is a being of terrific character- cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust
-Thomas Jefferson
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say there are nothing, or that there is no soul, no angels, no god. I cannot reason otherwise...I am satisfied, sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which we have no evidence
-Thomas Jefferson
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man
-Thomas Jefferson
During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolences in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution
-James Madison
Lighthouses are more useful than churches
-Benjamin Franklin
This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it
-John Adams
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed
-John Adams
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has produced- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced.
-John Adams
Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say there are nothing, or that there is no soul, no angels, no god. I cannot reason otherwise...I am satisfied, sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which we have no evidence
-Thomas Jefferson
Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone upon man
-Thomas Jefferson
During fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been it its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolences in the clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution
-James Madison
Lighthouses are more useful than churches
-Benjamin Franklin
This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it
-John Adams
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how it has happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed
-John Adams
I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has produced- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced.
-John Adams
Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak mines are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson
03-02-2009, 01:15 PM
#557
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we're trying to state science's facts and theories yet you(medicsti) try to disprove them with passages in bible when we're saying bible is not a reliable source for fact.
we're talking science and bible has no place in science.
we're talking logic and what bible says, makes no sense in terms of how it explains things.
science helps us understand what we dont know, bible just tells us what it wants us to know and cant further answer questions.
isnt this is the reason why they're claming intenlligent design?
first it was creationism, but it had no scientific merit so they decided to call it ID and take out the bible from the equation so that it can be closer to science.
ID has yet to teach us anything new, it only tries to tell us what they want to tell us, that god created everything.
science can teach us things that are so much more beautiful, elegant, awe-ing than what bible can tell us.
i'm starting to think that you're(medicsti) is just playing a role of a evangelic christian that just wants to play along in this game because the things you're telling us are very unconvicing, especially to some what educated people and the sources are from sites like "genesisisanswer", biased ideas towards creationism and so on.
we're talking science and bible has no place in science.
we're talking logic and what bible says, makes no sense in terms of how it explains things.
science helps us understand what we dont know, bible just tells us what it wants us to know and cant further answer questions.
isnt this is the reason why they're claming intenlligent design?
first it was creationism, but it had no scientific merit so they decided to call it ID and take out the bible from the equation so that it can be closer to science.
ID has yet to teach us anything new, it only tries to tell us what they want to tell us, that god created everything.
science can teach us things that are so much more beautiful, elegant, awe-ing than what bible can tell us.
i'm starting to think that you're(medicsti) is just playing a role of a evangelic christian that just wants to play along in this game because the things you're telling us are very unconvicing, especially to some what educated people and the sources are from sites like "genesisisanswer", biased ideas towards creationism and so on.
03-02-2009, 01:26 PM
#559
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religion vs science dont work.
but the idea is being pushed through as intelligent design.
ID isnt considered science, but those ID'ists are trying very hard.
but the idea is being pushed through as intelligent design.
ID isnt considered science, but those ID'ists are trying very hard.
03-02-2009, 01:30 PM
#560
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"i have no idea what you're talking about, so heres a picture of a triceratops with a saddle on it."
www.creationmuseum.org
03-02-2009, 01:33 PM
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According to Dr. Booble and the Discovery Institute, a conservative think-tank based in Seattle with affiliates operating at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, D.C., dinosaurs were expelled from the Garden of Eden for excessive flatulence and "unruly behavior" at about the same time that Adam and Eve were forced to leave as a penalty for a serpent-related "apple conspiracy".
03-02-2009, 01:37 PM
#562
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03-02-2009, 02:27 PM
#563
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The biggest problem with the "facts" that have been presented is that there is an assumption that these past documents were written about the Christian "god" and its followers.
Most of the documents written about the old testament were stories that were past down from civilizations thousands of years earlier then Christianity. Most of these stories were written by people who believed in multiple gods.
With this in mind, one cannot say "See you said it yourself. The documents that are in the Bible are confirmed in other civilizations!"
No it is quite the contrary. The Bible (Old Testament) used stories that were passed down from people of different faiths and manipulated those stories to fit the Christian viewpoint.
For example, have you ever heard of the Code of Hammurabi? Written in 1780 BCE, this text included many of the statements that the Bible OT has BEFORE the Bible was written. You then may say, "Well see, that means that the Bible is accurate because others were practicing the same thing." NO, that kind of thinking is using false logic. This was written in ancient Babylon, and it seems that Christians used some of this "passed down knowledge" to put in their book.
Another example of CLEAR Christian manipulation is the modern translation of Beowulf. Christian monks manipulated the original "oral" story of Beowulf and inserted words like God and Devil to fit what their viewpoint.
Most of the documents written about the old testament were stories that were past down from civilizations thousands of years earlier then Christianity. Most of these stories were written by people who believed in multiple gods.
With this in mind, one cannot say "See you said it yourself. The documents that are in the Bible are confirmed in other civilizations!"
No it is quite the contrary. The Bible (Old Testament) used stories that were passed down from people of different faiths and manipulated those stories to fit the Christian viewpoint.
For example, have you ever heard of the Code of Hammurabi? Written in 1780 BCE, this text included many of the statements that the Bible OT has BEFORE the Bible was written. You then may say, "Well see, that means that the Bible is accurate because others were practicing the same thing." NO, that kind of thinking is using false logic. This was written in ancient Babylon, and it seems that Christians used some of this "passed down knowledge" to put in their book.
Another example of CLEAR Christian manipulation is the modern translation of Beowulf. Christian monks manipulated the original "oral" story of Beowulf and inserted words like God and Devil to fit what their viewpoint.
03-02-2009, 02:43 PM
#564
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The biggest problem with the "facts" that have been presented is that there is an assumption that these past documents were written about the Christian "god" and its followers.
Most of the documents written about the old testament were stories that were past down from civilizations thousands of years earlier then Christianity. Most of these stories were written by people who believed in multiple gods.
With this in mind, one cannot say "See you said it yourself. The documents that are in the Bible are confirmed in other civilizations!"
No it is quite the contrary. The Bible (Old Testament) used stories that were passed down from people of different faiths and manipulated those stories to fit the Christian viewpoint.
For example, have you ever heard of the Code of Hammurabi? Written in 1780 BCE, this text included many of the statements that the Bible OT has BEFORE the Bible was written. You then may say, "Well see, that means that the Bible is accurate because others were practicing the same thing." NO, that kind of thinking is using false logic. This was written in ancient Babylon, and it seems that Christians used some of this "passed down knowledge" to put in their book.
Another example of CLEAR Christian manipulation is the modern translation of Beowulf. Christian monks manipulated the original "oral" story of Beowulf and inserted words like God and Devil to fit what their viewpoint.
Most of the documents written about the old testament were stories that were past down from civilizations thousands of years earlier then Christianity. Most of these stories were written by people who believed in multiple gods.
With this in mind, one cannot say "See you said it yourself. The documents that are in the Bible are confirmed in other civilizations!"
No it is quite the contrary. The Bible (Old Testament) used stories that were passed down from people of different faiths and manipulated those stories to fit the Christian viewpoint.
For example, have you ever heard of the Code of Hammurabi? Written in 1780 BCE, this text included many of the statements that the Bible OT has BEFORE the Bible was written. You then may say, "Well see, that means that the Bible is accurate because others were practicing the same thing." NO, that kind of thinking is using false logic. This was written in ancient Babylon, and it seems that Christians used some of this "passed down knowledge" to put in their book.
Another example of CLEAR Christian manipulation is the modern translation of Beowulf. Christian monks manipulated the original "oral" story of Beowulf and inserted words like God and Devil to fit what their viewpoint.
bet modern christians would love that.
03-02-2009, 03:08 PM
#566
Thomas Jefferson. Deist and some say a Mason
James Madison. Mason
Benjamin Franklin. Mason
John Adams. Puritan
I could find a bunch of great quotes from famous folks too. How about some of our other founding fathers...
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible!
George Washington
We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
James Madison
how about
If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him. Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.
William Penn
James Madison. Mason
Benjamin Franklin. Mason
John Adams. Puritan
I could find a bunch of great quotes from famous folks too. How about some of our other founding fathers...
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible!
George Washington
We have staked the future of American civilization upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
James Madison
how about
If thou wouldst rule well, thou must rule for God, and to do that, thou must be ruled by him. Those who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.
William Penn
03-02-2009, 03:13 PM
#568
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doesnt that all say, "orders are orders, obey all orders and do not question the authority"?
this sure will make governing easy, but thats not the point, is it.
this sure will make governing easy, but thats not the point, is it.
03-02-2009, 03:15 PM
#569
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and here is a video that explains what i've said how vast the universe is.
by the laws of physics, because of how fast light travels, we can definitly say how long everything has existed because we know the distance that the light has traveled from a single point. in the same way that when you turn on a flash light, you wont know what you see in the dark until the light from the flash light reflects off from the object you'll be looking at or another person seeing the flash light until the light hits his/her eyes.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/g..._universe.html
by the laws of physics, because of how fast light travels, we can definitly say how long everything has existed because we know the distance that the light has traveled from a single point. in the same way that when you turn on a flash light, you wont know what you see in the dark until the light from the flash light reflects off from the object you'll be looking at or another person seeing the flash light until the light hits his/her eyes.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/g..._universe.html
you said theory is written by men, bible isnt? no excuses, ultimatly, bible was written by men. civilizations change, laws and rules change, how is bible's word being the same for thousands of years a good thing(in terms of how it explains everything)? and from what i understand, bible has been edited in the past. and if the bible is the correct story, what about other religious books?
03-02-2009, 03:27 PM
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If there are such gods with 20,000+ original documents and artifacts, post them up with direct sources and links. If you can't produce the evidence, don't make the claim please.
Christianity is the must documented religion in the history of mankind. With the most artifacts, documentation, scripture, etc.
Christianity is the must documented religion in the history of mankind. With the most artifacts, documentation, scripture, etc.
Ah, double standards--always a source of fun!