Democrats: Health care is a right
07-28-2009, 06:33 PM
#256
Currency is an IOU representation of service or good provided, correct. My issue is not with currency itself, but the arbitrary value placed on peoples' lives because of the driving force of profit in a corporatist system.
As Paul wrote above, greed is not necessarily a bad thing, as it can be a powerful motivator for self-improvement and betterment of your environment.
You should know that my opinion on this relates to my distaste for wage slavery.
As Paul wrote above, greed is not necessarily a bad thing, as it can be a powerful motivator for self-improvement and betterment of your environment.
You should know that my opinion on this relates to my distaste for wage slavery.
________
Plymouth (automobile) history
Last edited by kyoung05; 03-30-2011 at 10:06 AM.
07-29-2009, 02:34 PM
#257
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I am just wondering. If single payer, universal health care is killing millions of people around the world, and is run by governments and witch doctors, (like the pic on page 17) then why haven't any European nations revolted against their governments yet??
Lets be honest, Europeans LOVE to protest. The place goes crazy when they try to infringe on ANY of their rights. This fact is undeniable. So whats your answer to all those countries with some form of universal healthcare???
Do they not love their mothers, grandparents and children as much as American's??
Are they willing to let the loved ones around them die BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, only to pay more in taxes for a health care system that doesn't work because they don't want to be strict free market capitalists?
Please answer these questions. Any reasonable answer will be considered.
Lets be honest, Europeans LOVE to protest. The place goes crazy when they try to infringe on ANY of their rights. This fact is undeniable. So whats your answer to all those countries with some form of universal healthcare???
Do they not love their mothers, grandparents and children as much as American's??
Are they willing to let the loved ones around them die BY THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, only to pay more in taxes for a health care system that doesn't work because they don't want to be strict free market capitalists?
Please answer these questions. Any reasonable answer will be considered.
07-29-2009, 02:49 PM
#258
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European Socialist health care = EVERBODY pays and EVERYONE is covered.
BarryCare = Only "Rich" pay and Only the "POOR" are covered.
France, England have horribly oppresive speed laws and no protests.
Apparently so, seeing that the USA has the highest survival rate of cancer
07-29-2009, 03:59 PM
#259
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BarryCare is Horse ****
Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
07-29-2009, 04:14 PM
#260
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Because they don't provide a link to the source, and their source is "a friend."
07-29-2009, 04:27 PM
#261
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Granted, the EU has recently enacted some pretty tight gun control laws, but saying that "most European countries have banned" firearms is a pretty severe exaggeration.
Sarkozy under pressure as French hit the streets:
PARIS (Reuters) - Up to three million people took to the streets of France on Thursday for a second round of protests against President Nicolas Sarkozy's handling of the economic crisis and to demand more help for struggling workers.
The rallies, which polls say are backed by three-quarters of the French public, reflect growing disillusion with Sarkozy's reforms as tens of thousands jobs are lost to the downturn.
The rallies, which polls say are backed by three-quarters of the French public, reflect growing disillusion with Sarkozy's reforms as tens of thousands jobs are lost to the downturn.
As for Britain, I'm not sure.
All that being said, I still don't want our government involved in my health, or having unfettered, easy access to my health records. What if I get addicted to crack? Will they pay for my recovery and then imprison me? There are simply too many opportunities for abuse of that kind of information at the hands of a power-hungry government.
07-30-2009, 12:14 PM
#267
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The latest pdf is different than the first one that was posted several days ago; changes made, pages not in sync with the claims being made, etc.
08-07-2009, 03:01 PM
#269
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The more I see statements like this, the more I come to the conclusion that it's justifying the enslaving of someone else for your own benefit.
"Human rights" are things that you are born with and are inherent to the human condition and cannot/should not be taken away by government or society. Health care is a service provided through the labor of other people, so saying that it is a "right" is saying that people have to provide you with it, which makes them slaves to your need.
"Human rights" are things that you are born with and are inherent to the human condition and cannot/should not be taken away by government or society. Health care is a service provided through the labor of other people, so saying that it is a "right" is saying that people have to provide you with it, which makes them slaves to your need.
Last edited by saqwarrior; 08-07-2009 at 03:04 PM.
