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Democrats: Health care is a right

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Old 07-22-2009, 04:18 PM
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Ok, arguing whether people should be entitled to free health care is debatable (I guess), but no one can seriously argue that a government-run health care system is going to offer BETTER care more EFFICIENTLY than a privatized system.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by saqwarrior
I think a better solution for our current system is: include nutritional education in grades K-12. Not just as a one-off class, either -- make it a required major course every few years.
Yeah but the current food pyramid provided by the government is HIGHLY debatable to being accurate. Until they can actually make an unbiased pyramid that is actually HEALTHY, then I see this as a huge problem... but you have a good idea hypothetically.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Now you're getting somewhere.

But your solution still includes legislation, gov't involvment, restriction of personal freedoms.
Why do you think we needed the FDA? To reform what was wrong with our food manufacturing system (ie. The Jungle by Upton Sinclaire) As far as I am concerned, we already have a system in place but it isn't being utilized. You may need more legislation within the FDA, but is that such a bad thing? I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I am sure our Founding Fathers would be PISSED knowing what we had to eat now.

I hate going shopping because I have to make sure EVERY item I buy doesn't have all the **** in it. It should be the other way around.. I should have to look around to find food with **** in it. You know?


It's a miracle that we basically agree on something.
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:27 PM
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I had a friend get to drunk in London the day before is plane left. He was found face down in the street (a girl we knew was supposed to walk him home but she ditched him after a block), uncouscious, with puke... and he was taken to a nearby hospital. He was found about 3am and made the bus to his plane by 6am. He was confirmed to have alcohol poisoning... but yeah. Moral of the story.. it cost him nothing. haha
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by irrational x
dont listen to me...
Yeah but I am sure that the 50million Americans that don't have health insurance would be jumping for joy to have mediocre healthcare as opposed to NONE.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:47 PM
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I agree with this:

Political philosopher Richard Weaver famously and correctly stated that ideas have consequences. Take for example ideas about rights versus goods. Natural law states that people have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A good is something you work for and earn. It might be a need, like food, but more "goods" seem to be becoming "rights" in our culture, and this has troubling consequences. It might seem harmless enough to decide that people have a right to things like education, employment, housing or healthcare. But if we look a little further into the consequences, we can see that the workings of the community and economy are thrown wildly off balance when people accept those ideas.

First of all, other people must pay for things like healthcare. Those people have bills to pay and families to support, just as you do. If there is a "right" to healthcare, you must force the providers of those goods, or others, to serve you.

Obviously, if healthcare providers were suddenly considered outright slaves to healthcare consumers, our medical schools would quickly empty. As the government continues to convince us that healthcare is a right instead of a good, it also very generously agrees to step in as middle man. Politicians can be very good at making it sound as if healthcare will be free for everybody. Nothing could be further from the truth. The administration doesn’t want you to think too much about how hospitals will be funded, or how you will somehow get something for nothing in the healthcare arena. We are asked to just trust the politicians. Somehow it will all work out.

Universal Healthcare never quite works out the way the people are led to believe before implementing it. Citizens in countries with nationalized healthcare never would have accepted this system had they known upfront about the rationing of care and the long lines.

As bureaucrats take over medicine, costs go up and quality goes down because doctors spend more and more of their time on paperwork and less time helping patients. As costs skyrocket, as they always do when inefficient bureaucrats take the reins, government will need to confiscate more and more money from an already foundering economy to somehow pay the bills. As we have seen many times, the more money and power that government has, the more power it will abuse. The frightening aspect of all this is that cutting costs, which they will inevitably do, could very well mean denying vital services. And since participation will be mandatory, no legal alternatives will be available. The government will be paying the bills, forcing doctors and hospitals to dance more and more to the government’s tune. Having to subject our health to this bureaucratic insanity and mismanagement is possibly the biggest danger we face. The great irony is that in turning the good of healthcare into a right, your life and liberty are put in jeopardy.

Instead of further removing healthcare from the market, we should return to a true free market in healthcare, one that empowers individuals, not bureaucrats, with control of healthcare dollars. My bill HR 1495 the Comprehensive Healthcare Reform Act provides tax credits and medical savings accounts designed to do just that.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:50 PM
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See as much as I think healthcare should be aright, I am ok taking it as a good as long as people can afford it. There are a lot of Americans that can't.


Also, I love how there are so many Republicans *****ing about how Obama wants to reform healthcare, but how come the Repubs didn't change healthcare when they had the chance?? Now they are complaining about it.. but Repubs dropped the ball INMO.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo Rob
Yeah but I am sure that the 50million Americans that don't have health insurance would be jumping for joy to have mediocre healthcare as opposed to NONE.
Of course they would love it...they don't haveto pay for it!

Originally Posted by Turbo Rob
See as much as I think healthcare should be aright, I am ok taking it as a good as long as people can afford it. There are a lot of Americans that can't.


Also, I love how there are so many Republicans *****ing about how Obama wants to reform healthcare, but how come the Repubs didn't change healthcare when they had the chance?? Now they are complaining about it.. but Repubs dropped the ball INMO.
I believe that the major complaint is how this scheme's cost/benefits ratio is too ****ed up.
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Old 07-22-2009, 09:31 PM
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Ummm, this has to do with the government and medicare. If medicare was taken out of the picture, and true capitalism worked with the health system it would be a lot better and cheaper.

If insurances matched each other better, then that's when the bargaining begins and the prices compete for one another.

If you had 100 folsk lookin' for healthcare, and Insurance A offers exactly what Insurance B, C, D offer, but you began the bargaining price. That's how it competes.

Same with anything else in capitalism. Government RAN ANYTHING is a farse. Only **** we should be paying the government for is regulating the military, postal service, and a few other things

If we can buy a soda at a store and get a receipt. We should also get a receipt for funding/BUYING the necessary military defense, food control, etc. The fact that we pay so many taxes on everything, from gas, to fixing roads to whatever the hell else we pay for should be 100% open. We should be receiving receipts instead of just a general "this is going for the city/state/gov" cuz obviously these ****s aren't using our $$ right.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Of course they would love it...they don't haveto pay for it!
I know! Thats why there should be more affordable healthcare!

I am sure you have heard all the complaints about WalMart keeping employees at 32hours a week so they don't have to pay for their healthcare. Well I am sorry but that is ****ed up. If employers, especially those profiting billions, are using "the system" to not pay health care, then there should be consequences.

My dad is coowner of a small construction business based out of SF (45 workers when the market is up) and the unions force them to pay health care... and that cost is refelected in how much he bids the job for. See how that works? Even though he has to pay alot for them to work, he isn't "really" paying for it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by iLoqin
If we can buy a soda at a store and get a receipt. We should also get a receipt for funding/BUYING the necessary military defense, food control, etc. The fact that we pay so many taxes on everything, from gas, to fixing roads to whatever the hell else we pay for should be 100% open. We should be receiving receipts instead of just a general "this is going for the city/state/gov" cuz obviously these ****s aren't using our $$ right.
There is a movement to do just that. The tax payer would get to choose which of his taxes went where. Of course the government isn't cool with that because there would be a lot of hippies not funding their war!

Plus there is just a huge conflict of interest... in theory it's a good idea but in practice.... i'm not to sure.

But I think there should be a receipt from the government as to what they used your money for that you receive every year that you file your taxes.
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Old 07-22-2009, 11:35 PM
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But this totally remind me...

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c13...f-ing-citibank

Nationalized Banks.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:08 AM
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I mean there are necessary taxes that we would just be plained taxed for the part of the Nations tax. There is just a certain amount that we must all give for the military, and other branches. We just can't get taxed n' say "it's for the government" and we don't know what goes where. If there was a receipt and ways to track how much is being spent where, and the actual INTAKE of the $$ that is taxed from us. Then it would be easier to understand why we are in debt and how we're spending more than we're making.
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Old 07-23-2009, 08:29 AM
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Obama Falsely Claims There Are 47 Million Uninsured Americans


In a nationally televised primetime press conference tonight, President Barack Obama falsely claimed there are 47 million Americans without health insurance...


...The Census Bureau says that there are only 35.92 million uninsured Americans and that this number includes 9.1 million people who earn more than $75,000 a year and simply choose not to purchase insurance.
Making about only 25million people without health insurance.
The population of the USA is ~300million.

That means only ~10% of the population is without health insurance.
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Obama Falsely Claims There Are 47 Million Uninsured Americans




Making about only 25million people without health insurance.
The population of the USA is ~300million.

That means only ~10% of the population is without health insurance.
A politician fudged numbers to help his agenda? Shocking!
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