Carter rips Miller on convention speech
09-08-2004, 11:15 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by ftnssn
They feel that we should do whatever it takes to pacify the rest of the world and make other countries feel good about themselves. They feel that we shouldn't ever wield our own power independent of the rest of the world
09-08-2004, 12:50 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by psoper
Does the US make the greatest all wheel drive sports cars in the world? no.
)
Originally Posted by psoper
Does the US allow the most personal freedom? no.
09-08-2004, 01:13 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by psoper
OK I apologize for the moron comment, but I do have a deep lothing of blind nationalism, and an inherent distrust of those that engage in it, and comments like you made about President Carter not subscribing to that very thing- makes me think that maybe you do.
And if you really do, than I'll stand by my labelling, as I really don't think that a rational, intelligent, thinking person can fully and without exception believe that America is the "greatest nation on earth".
You yourself did add the "despite its flaws" qualifier.
My point is that as along as we acknowledge flaws, there is room for improvement and the title of "greatest nation on earth" has no real meaning.
In fact the very notion of one nation being greater than any other only has meaning when such nations are being discussed in a specific context.
Does the US make the greatest all wheel drive sports cars in the world? no.
Does the US have the largest population in the world? no.
Does the US have the fastest growing economy in the world? no.
Does the US allow the most personal freedom? no.
Does the US have the most technologically advanced military? , yes it sure does.
Does the US have a military that can rule the world?, I don't think so.
What does the greatest nation on earth mean to you?
And if you really do, than I'll stand by my labelling, as I really don't think that a rational, intelligent, thinking person can fully and without exception believe that America is the "greatest nation on earth".
You yourself did add the "despite its flaws" qualifier.
My point is that as along as we acknowledge flaws, there is room for improvement and the title of "greatest nation on earth" has no real meaning.
In fact the very notion of one nation being greater than any other only has meaning when such nations are being discussed in a specific context.
Does the US make the greatest all wheel drive sports cars in the world? no.
Does the US have the largest population in the world? no.
Does the US have the fastest growing economy in the world? no.
Does the US allow the most personal freedom? no.
Does the US have the most technologically advanced military? , yes it sure does.
Does the US have a military that can rule the world?, I don't think so.
What does the greatest nation on earth mean to you?
wow, i'm so touched by your kinda sorta not really at all retraction of calling me a bastard. Way to pose a bunch of questions that mean nothing at all standing by themselves. If you can give me an answer for each of those questions in regard to who does all those things than I'll give you some credence. The only real question I have for you is if you think there's somewhere better, that why don't you move there?
I'm not even going to bother explaining what America means to me because you'll probably(notice I said probably, I didn't automatically assume that you would) just dismiss it out of hand as jingoism.
09-08-2004, 01:31 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Where do you think the Legacy GT is made, beyoch?! ( )
)A Japanese design thats assembled in Indiana, and a nice car but hardly a sports car-
but the Porsche Carerra GT is German as are several lesser models from them and a handful from Audi that would hand the legacy its luch in just about any catagory.
The Italians have also been known to make some pretty bad assed AWD rides as well, Lambo anyone?
Originally Posted by Oaf
What country does?
ANDORRA
AUSTRIA
BELGIUM
CANADA
DENMARK
FINLAND
ICELAND
LIECHTENSTEIN
LUXEMBOURG
MARSHALL
NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND
NORWAY
PORTUGAL
SAN MARINO
SWEDEN
SWITZERLAND
The US is generally listed in the second tier, along with
AUSTRALIA
BARBADOS
BELIZE
COSTA RICA
CZECH REP
ESTONIA
FRANCE
GERMANY
GREECE
HUNGARY
IRELAND
ITALY
JAPAN
LATVIA
LITHUANIA
MALTA
MONACO
PALAU
POLAND
SAINT
SLOVENIA
SPAIN
TUVALU
UNITED KINGDOM
Now those account for the top 40 when considering the 63 or so "free countries" there are 130+ that aren't considered "Free", so we're doing pretty good, but there's room for improvement here, and our ranking has dropped by most accounts over the last 4 years.
09-08-2004, 01:48 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by ftnssn
wow, i'm so touched by your kinda sorta not really at all retraction of calling me a bastard.
No, again you are wrong- a moron is not a bastard, a moron is someone who is incapable of reasoning or thinking for themselves, a bastard is someone who was born from parents who aren't married.
Originally Posted by ftnssn
Way to pose a bunch of questions that mean nothing at all standing by themselves.
Originally Posted by ftnssn
If you can give me an answer for each of those questions in regard to who does all those things than I'll give you some credence.
Originally Posted by ftnssn
The only real question I have for you is if you think there's somewhere better, that why don't you move there?
On the other hand, if it comes to what I expect from another 4 years of republican proto-fascism I may very well choose to move out of this country, I can only hope that I'll still have such an option.
Originally Posted by ftnssn
I'm not even going to bother explaining what America means to me because you'll probably(notice I said probably, I didn't automatically assume that you would) just dismiss it out of hand as jingoism.
Seriously, I have no beef with your pride and some degree of nationalism, but once it gets into "greatest country in the world" rhetoric, we have stepped off the train of logical discourse and into what I would most certainly call jingoistic rhetoric.
09-08-2004, 07:18 PM
#21
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ANDORRA-68504
AUSTRIA-8147010
BELGIUM-10307027
CANADA-31802048
DENMARK-5381173
FINLAND-5190671
ICELAND-291647
LIECHTENSTEIN-32879
LUXEMBOURG-446135
MARSHALL-59738
NETHERLANDS-16108093
NEW ZEALAND-3916097
NORWAY-4548501
PORTUGAL-10422672
SAN MARINO-27275
SWEDEN-8924000
SWITZERLAND-7327937
Every country you named is only a fraction the size of the United States, think that might have anything to do with it?
AUSTRIA-8147010
BELGIUM-10307027
CANADA-31802048
DENMARK-5381173
FINLAND-5190671
ICELAND-291647
LIECHTENSTEIN-32879
LUXEMBOURG-446135
MARSHALL-59738
NETHERLANDS-16108093
NEW ZEALAND-3916097
NORWAY-4548501
PORTUGAL-10422672
SAN MARINO-27275
SWEDEN-8924000
SWITZERLAND-7327937
Every country you named is only a fraction the size of the United States, think that might have anything to do with it?
09-09-2004, 10:06 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by FUNKED1
All the more reason to fight for small, local, government instead of the enormous centralized government the Bush/Kerry types keep building.
Locals are more in touch with local issues. The federal government is ineffective in dealing with local issues, and unfairly redistributes tax revenue from one geographic area to another. Local power would revitalize democracy, imho.
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