i haven't come to a formal opinion on that. I was throwing out ideas, trying to research to see if ESL classes actually work, etc, etc.

 

I wouldnt go so far to put everything in any sort of second language


[quote]I'm not thinking about HS diplomas. I'm thinking voting, social security, government services - things that citizens pay their taxes to get. Getting a HS diploma is not a right.[/quote[

So, we need new american youth you aren't smart/able enough to get a HS diploma? Great, just what this country needs



I'm glad they made the law. It was 100% unfair that almost all of the ESL courses/teachers/tests were for the spanish speaking. What about the multitude of asian languages? So are we supposed to have all education in 8-9 different languages? I think not, that would cost a ton and be more detrimental to the students than anything. If you are FORCED to learn the language, you will. No need to make excuses for those who don't. The human mind is extremely powerful and adaptive.


Maybe you aren't. 9% of my paycheck goes to CA and 25% to the US government. Add in medicare and SS, and there goes 40% of my paycheck. Yeah, not a lot there *rolls eyes*

I agree with you, it is tough, but that doesnt mean we shouldn't require all to at least be proficient in it. I'm not expecting everyone to turn out a grammar/spelling bee champ. Just to be proficient so you can read/write and speak such that everyone knows what you are saying. My father came here when he was 18, didnt speak a LICK of english (from thailand) and went straight into a US english only technical university. He took extra english classes on his own time/dime and there was no ESL support, especially in the still very racist south (TN). So if he can do it, I think any young child or other person can.

Yeah, thats a bit more than a stretch. It is not the goverments role to hold its citizens hands and wipe their ***. I'm amazed how some liberals are opposed to big government/etc yet still call for such measures. I think if english was declared as the national language (many states have in fact put it into their constitutions), then everyone who isnt in the loop will be forced to do so faster. Bottom line, humans must always be ready to adapt. If you aren't willing to adapt, you will be left behind. I as a tax payer don't want to pay any extra for those who aren't willing to pull themselves along. I'm also heavily opposed to the whole social welfare aspect of this country. Its beyond corrupt and beyond wasteful. And no, I'm not a republican

 

For your paper, it might help to do some research on what the government currently does to support non-native English speakers and compare that to the popular perception of what's being done and their costs.

Some examples include multi-lingual ballots and forms, 911 service in multiple languages, bilingual education, etc.

You might also look into other countries that have mutiple official languages. India, Singapore, etc.

I'll ask this to the folks who want English-only - what are the benefits of going English-only? Is it just money? What should non-English-fluent people do when they need government services but can't access them without using English? (Services they paid for with their taxes)

 

Werd. Thanks for screwing up my order, thanks a lot non-english speark man

 

Most democratic countries are over 50% tax on average, but you do get much more for your tax dollars. I met a German businessman once who claimed to have been so successful one year he got taxed 108%

 

Well, you are comparing apples to oranges there

As for signs and such. Who cares, thats not the issue at hand. Its private property, they can advertise in any language they want. They are only decreasing their potential customer base by only advertising in one language

They can put the speak anything they want on their own time, put their signs in whatever they want, but they should still be able to get by with their english skills

 

Not really. 30-40% taxation isn't that much compared to most developed and democratic countries. Only the third-world will charge you less taxes (depending on the form of government)

 

Yeah, but you really cant compare those countries to us since their whole governmental structure is different. Many of them have all their health care paid for, cost of living is much different, etc. Like I said, apples to oranges

 

I agree to a point - young kids pick up languages like it's nothing at all, but it's much harder for older kids, and especially hard for adults. Sometimes, no amount of forcing will make someone fluent.

Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

Check out Germany, Denmark, etc. Check out England - they're about the same as us... but we don't get healthcare! Also, SS really isn't a tax.. supposedly you get that money back when you retire.

I'd say your dad's really smart! But I'll guess that he's an unusually smart fellow. Personally, I would have a hard time becoming proficient in Chinese... wish I could, but realistically, I think that's out of the question at my age.

I think encouraging English proficiency is okay, but requiring it isn't.

 

Yeah, exactly. Most countries charge more to be a citizen and you get more. 40% is not a lot, even with how much (little) we get.

 

In those cases, its not ability, its stuborness. I refuse to believe any normal healty human is complete unable to become proficient in a second language, I simply refuse.
I'm pretty much grown and I was able to learn enough thai in a year to get by in thailand without any translators (my dad didnt teach me any thai as a kid)

 

I didn't read everything but if I get a chance to I will.

Great paper topic.

I think it was said but there is no official language for the united states. Big screw up if you ask me. We are one of the only non 3rd world countries I know of that does not have an official language. In fact if I remember correctly many of our early government papers were written in several languages but only printed in one due to cost to print. German being one of those.



anyways. Me personally. I think that this is a huge problem right now. In any major country you go to. You want to move there. Get a job. Start a family. Get a drivers lisense. Whatever. You need to learn their language. If you do not you just won't be able to succeed in that country. Go to france you better learn french.

But for some reason here in the U.S. because we were founded on cultural diversity (supposedly) we don't make people do that. And over the years it's gotten more an more acceptable to live here, profit of the country and never participate in that country. Drivers test given in 7 different languages or translators allowed. In fact it's gotten to the point that if you tell someone to order food at your restaurant in english or pass an english exam you're a biggot. **** that.

Far as I'm concerned this is America. We speak English here. Learn it or get the **** out. I am sick and tired of people coming here, excapeing whatever bull**** is happening in their home country or just coming for more opportunity profiting off this country, expecting hand outs and never kicking down. I can't stand running into people that have been here for 30 damn years and can't understand what the word "bread" means. Or can't read the signs that say slow traffic stay to the left. But somehow they can drive brand new benzes and buy the biggest house on the block. They can do that because we have allowed it to happen. People come here and start there own mini-home country. It started back in the day because you had to do it to survive. Now you don't. Mini-afghan. China town. Japantown. etc. I don't see american town anywhere? Not in california. Not anymore.

I mean every damn allowance is given to people to succeed in this country and that is awesome. But to me the time has come to put people on equal grounds.

Going to go on the mexican deal right now because that's what is around me right now.

They are going *** wild because they have to pass an exam and they are at a disadvantage because spanish is their first language. Who gives a ****. Pass the damn exam. My dad teaches English in a school that is well over 90% mexican. He failed OVER 50% of his students last semester...why......not because they aren't smart or can't learn the language or cause he's an *******. He did it because the DID NOT TURN ANYTHING IN. They don't try. Why. Because they don't have to. If your name is Hernandez or Diaz or whatever you can get into college if you want to and get damn near everything paid for by the taxpayer whether you graduated college or not. On top of that if you can't handle Watsonville Highschool or whatever your school is there is an extension school nearbye that will let you graduate doing half the work if any at all. Or you can take tax payer funded ESL classes designed to help you pass the G.E.D. so you can get in to college.

But if your name is Egelhofer or McWhatever **** off. Do it on your own.

you may say what a bitter *****. I say go ahead. I am a bitter *****. I'm sick of people taking and taking and taking and then *****ing when someone tells them to do something on their own.

So chels.....to answer your question.

Yes they damn well should have to speak english in an american classroom.
Yes they damn well should have to pass an exam that prooves they actually did something in school.
yes the official language should be made English in the U.S. and you should be at the very least expected to be able to communicate and understand it.



Saying all that I personally feel that the U.S. education system is crappy for the most part. We have cut the budget all to hell and cut expectations all to hell and there's nothing left. On top of that we don't make it mandatory to learn any language but english. To get into university you have to take 2 years of a foreign language....you don't learn **** in two years that's worth a damn if you don't keep going. We need to start teaching our children multiple languages for their own good from the time they start school.

Shoot in Spain most good students know 3 fluent languages and often times 5 languages by the time they finish school. They learn their own. They learn english...from the get go. And then they can take another one.

The sad part is because English is pretty much the world's most common language we expect everyone to speak it so we don't expect our citizens to learn anything else.

I personally think that from the get y ou should learn english and then have to start taking classes for another one as early as say 4th grade. So when you get out of highschool you can speak two languages. offered languages would be changed according to commonality. Like in watsonville spanish. In S.F. maybe chinese.

But for that to happen we need to stop stealing money from the kids and start paying teachers more than 29k a year. I can earn that starbucks man. shoot...more.

 

1. Yes. Yes.
2. Yes.
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1) Yes, and Yes.
2) Yes.

 

im going to learn hindi and various dialects of mandarinm wu, and cantonese

that way no matter what happens ill be set...