Why is everyone looking for a rear brake kit?
12-17-2002, 03:56 PM
#16
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Posts: n/a
Gary
How is your wear on your rear rotors?
I will also admit to an appearance component to this upgrade but as Zahn and I said above Subaru must be doing it for some reason on a number of their JDM et al models. Maybe it is looks, but as long as theyre keeping the good oem stuff overseas, I'm gonna keep looking to upgrade.
STI Brembo - 4/2 pot 326mm front 316mm rear
WRX NB-R - 4/2 pot 294mm front 290mm rear
GT-B/B-4 - 2/1 pot 294mm front 290mm rear
k.
I will also admit to an appearance component to this upgrade but as Zahn and I said above Subaru must be doing it for some reason on a number of their JDM et al models. Maybe it is looks, but as long as theyre keeping the good oem stuff overseas, I'm gonna keep looking to upgrade.
STI Brembo - 4/2 pot 326mm front 316mm rear
WRX NB-R - 4/2 pot 294mm front 290mm rear
GT-B/B-4 - 2/1 pot 294mm front 290mm rear
k.
12-18-2002, 01:44 PM
#17
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Boise Idaho, USA
Posts: 162
Car Info: 08 FS/07 FXT/93 GC8 blue/black/black
gary are you using the stock brake proportioning valve?
if it was adjustable i agree no change is needed ..just proportion in more rear bias to match the larger fronts..
if it was adjustable i agree no change is needed ..just proportion in more rear bias to match the larger fronts..
12-18-2002, 05:11 PM
#18
Wear on the rear rotors is fine.
I use a Tilton cockpit adjustable brake bias for changing conditions on the track. However, the Stoptech brakes are sized to maintain stock bias, so at least with the Stoptech kit, nothing else is required.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
I use a Tilton cockpit adjustable brake bias for changing conditions on the track. However, the Stoptech brakes are sized to maintain stock bias, so at least with the Stoptech kit, nothing else is required.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
12-23-2002, 09:06 PM
#19
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: columbia,md
Posts: 134
Car Info: 03 wrx,944 turbo racecar, Lexus is300
It still amazes me that people who have never even driven on the track or have any f----n clue about REAL braking have the ***** to question someone like Gary who has not only raced a Subaru, but won races in a WRX on a national pro level,..have the nerve to challenge what he is saying.
If you have never gone 150 mph and waited to brake at 300 ft while heal and toe downshifting lap after lap, without ABS, you should keep your pie closed. I get very upset reading alot of these post where people come on as authorities and act like there last name is Senna or Said, or Schumacher, let alone not giving the respect to some of the real grassroots people here in the states who have moved up through the ranks and go out and raced a car that isnt the most competitive and WIN..
Every post after the first should have read..............
cosmetic...
cosmetic..
looks...
fuller look with big wheels...
show car....
cosmetic..
Instead people sit and challenge someone who if he ( Gary ) didnt know what he was talking about would have found out very quickly that he needed rear brakes. If any of you " brake specialist
" have ever gone to a Speedvision race or USRRC race you'd see that most rears are stock with a either a Performance Friction 90, or 93 , or 01, compound ,..and good rotors, PFC rotors or Coleman rotors as a backup. These guys run temp strips and rotor paint to determine how hot the brakes are getting. The big boys,..PFC,.HAWK,..FERRODO,..send the reps to the races, from Indy car to ALMS, to Speedvision to see whats working and not working.
So forgive me for getting so worked up, its frustrating some times to see the blind leadingthe blind on I-club sometimes.
On my 944 turbo racecar I run AP calipers, with 14.9 in PFC rotors from ESSEX RACING. I use 3 inch brake ducts to Carbon Fibre plates shaped to match the hub and center of disc. i use temp strips and rotor paint . 950-1050 degrees front rotor temp. AP600 fluid and no ABS. Summit Point lap time best 1min 23 sec. on HOOSIERS. If your range of knowledge is something you read,.ask somebody who does it.
On my old 2.5 RS I used wrx front brakes with HAWK Blue pads front and rear, this setup could last 15 laps at Summit Point and never fade using Supper Bue fluid and stock lines.
sorry for if I offended anyone,..Gary keep up the good work,
944 turbo guy.
If you have never gone 150 mph and waited to brake at 300 ft while heal and toe downshifting lap after lap, without ABS, you should keep your pie closed. I get very upset reading alot of these post where people come on as authorities and act like there last name is Senna or Said, or Schumacher, let alone not giving the respect to some of the real grassroots people here in the states who have moved up through the ranks and go out and raced a car that isnt the most competitive and WIN..
Every post after the first should have read..............
cosmetic...
cosmetic..
looks...
fuller look with big wheels...
show car....
cosmetic..
Instead people sit and challenge someone who if he ( Gary ) didnt know what he was talking about would have found out very quickly that he needed rear brakes. If any of you " brake specialist
" have ever gone to a Speedvision race or USRRC race you'd see that most rears are stock with a either a Performance Friction 90, or 93 , or 01, compound ,..and good rotors, PFC rotors or Coleman rotors as a backup. These guys run temp strips and rotor paint to determine how hot the brakes are getting. The big boys,..PFC,.HAWK,..FERRODO,..send the reps to the races, from Indy car to ALMS, to Speedvision to see whats working and not working.
So forgive me for getting so worked up, its frustrating some times to see the blind leadingthe blind on I-club sometimes.
On my 944 turbo racecar I run AP calipers, with 14.9 in PFC rotors from ESSEX RACING. I use 3 inch brake ducts to Carbon Fibre plates shaped to match the hub and center of disc. i use temp strips and rotor paint . 950-1050 degrees front rotor temp. AP600 fluid and no ABS. Summit Point lap time best 1min 23 sec. on HOOSIERS. If your range of knowledge is something you read,.ask somebody who does it.
On my old 2.5 RS I used wrx front brakes with HAWK Blue pads front and rear, this setup could last 15 laps at Summit Point and never fade using Supper Bue fluid and stock lines.
sorry for if I offended anyone,..Gary keep up the good work,
944 turbo guy.
12-25-2002, 12:17 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree, Gary has tons track experience and I'm 100% sure he drives his WRX race car harder than any of us drive our WRX's. So that's why I took his advice and just got better pads and stainless braided lines in the rear. That saved me about $1000, because I was orginally going to get a 2-pot rear system, now I can focus on getting better suspension with the saved money. Thanks for the advice.
12-29-2002, 07:38 AM
#24
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Posts: n/a
Originally posted by 944 turbo guy
It still amazes me that people who have never even driven on the track or have any f----n clue about REAL braking have the ***** to question someone like Gary who has not only raced a Subaru, but won races in a WRX on a national pro level,..have the nerve to challenge what he is saying.
If you have never gone 150 mph and waited to brake at 300 ft while heal and toe downshifting lap after lap, without ABS, you should keep your pie closed. I get very upset reading alot of these post where people come on as authorities and act like there last name is Senna or Said, or Schumacher, let alone not giving the respect to some of the real grassroots people here in the states who have moved up through the ranks and go out and raced a car that isnt the most competitive and WIN..
Every post after the first should have read..............
cosmetic...
cosmetic..
looks...
fuller look with big wheels...
show car....
cosmetic..
Instead people sit and challenge someone who if he ( Gary ) didnt know what he was talking about would have found out very quickly that he needed rear brakes. If any of you " brake specialist
" have ever gone to a Speedvision race or USRRC race you'd see that most rears are stock with a either a Performance Friction 90, or 93 , or 01, compound ,..and good rotors, PFC rotors or Coleman rotors as a backup. These guys run temp strips and rotor paint to determine how hot the brakes are getting. The big boys,..PFC,.HAWK,..FERRODO,..send the reps to the races, from Indy car to ALMS, to Speedvision to see whats working and not working.
So forgive me for getting so worked up, its frustrating some times to see the blind leadingthe blind on I-club sometimes.
On my 944 turbo racecar I run AP calipers, with 14.9 in PFC rotors from ESSEX RACING. I use 3 inch brake ducts to Carbon Fibre plates shaped to match the hub and center of disc. i use temp strips and rotor paint . 950-1050 degrees front rotor temp. AP600 fluid and no ABS. Summit Point lap time best 1min 23 sec. on HOOSIERS. If your range of knowledge is something you read,.ask somebody who does it.
On my old 2.5 RS I used wrx front brakes with HAWK Blue pads front and rear, this setup could last 15 laps at Summit Point and never fade using Supper Bue fluid and stock lines.
sorry for if I offended anyone,..Gary keep up the good work,
944 turbo guy.
It still amazes me that people who have never even driven on the track or have any f----n clue about REAL braking have the ***** to question someone like Gary who has not only raced a Subaru, but won races in a WRX on a national pro level,..have the nerve to challenge what he is saying.
If you have never gone 150 mph and waited to brake at 300 ft while heal and toe downshifting lap after lap, without ABS, you should keep your pie closed. I get very upset reading alot of these post where people come on as authorities and act like there last name is Senna or Said, or Schumacher, let alone not giving the respect to some of the real grassroots people here in the states who have moved up through the ranks and go out and raced a car that isnt the most competitive and WIN..
Every post after the first should have read..............
cosmetic...
cosmetic..
looks...
fuller look with big wheels...
show car....
cosmetic..
Instead people sit and challenge someone who if he ( Gary ) didnt know what he was talking about would have found out very quickly that he needed rear brakes. If any of you " brake specialist
" have ever gone to a Speedvision race or USRRC race you'd see that most rears are stock with a either a Performance Friction 90, or 93 , or 01, compound ,..and good rotors, PFC rotors or Coleman rotors as a backup. These guys run temp strips and rotor paint to determine how hot the brakes are getting. The big boys,..PFC,.HAWK,..FERRODO,..send the reps to the races, from Indy car to ALMS, to Speedvision to see whats working and not working.
So forgive me for getting so worked up, its frustrating some times to see the blind leadingthe blind on I-club sometimes.
On my 944 turbo racecar I run AP calipers, with 14.9 in PFC rotors from ESSEX RACING. I use 3 inch brake ducts to Carbon Fibre plates shaped to match the hub and center of disc. i use temp strips and rotor paint . 950-1050 degrees front rotor temp. AP600 fluid and no ABS. Summit Point lap time best 1min 23 sec. on HOOSIERS. If your range of knowledge is something you read,.ask somebody who does it.
On my old 2.5 RS I used wrx front brakes with HAWK Blue pads front and rear, this setup could last 15 laps at Summit Point and never fade using Supper Bue fluid and stock lines.
sorry for if I offended anyone,..Gary keep up the good work,
944 turbo guy.
Back on topic, I can't speak for other peoples vehicles but let me explain a bit about my own. Lets eliminate calipers from the discussion, beacuse you, 944 guy, as an experienced track aficionado, should know the performance is largely a rotor issue. My Subaru came stock with 277x24mm front and 266x10mm rear rotors. I upgraded both the front AND rear rotors to 294x24mm and 290x18mm respectively. This equates to an almost identical to stock front to rear brake bias and a significant increase in the cooling capacity of the system in general. And it looks better than stock as well.
Do I have any remorse or concerns about the effects this will have on my braking? No. Is the system superior to the stock system? IMO, yes it is in every important way. As long as the bias is maintained, any upgrade in the cooling capacity of the system is a good thing.
k.
12-29-2002, 08:21 AM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 48
Originally posted by AaronC
The main noncosmetic reason to get ugraded rear brakes is to reduce the unsprung and rotational weight.
The main noncosmetic reason to get ugraded rear brakes is to reduce the unsprung and rotational weight.
Another thought is that our rear brake system utilizes a floating caliper. Most if not all after market kits have a fixed caliper not because a fixed caliper has more torque, but because the pads will wear more evenly. In theory a floating caliper should wear evenly, but because imperfect floating mechanisms can cause binding and uneven pad wear.
True Gary does not use a rear BBK. Maybe that is because one of his main sponsors is Stoptech, who does not make rear kits. If he employed one wouldn’t it make people question why stoptech says it is unneeded? Obviously a rear setup would not be a very good use of money for the average joe. But for someone wanting to scrape every bit of performance on the track, it may be beneficial.
12-29-2002, 08:29 AM
#26
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why is everyone looking for a rear brake kit?
Originally posted by GarySheehan
I keep seeing this question come up time and again. Why do you need a rear brake kit?
It's not with respect to braking power, the stock rear brakes are fine, since they are not doing much work in stopping the car in general.
It's not temperature related. We run the stock rear brakes in the USTCC car with no issues whatsoever. Other than braided lines and a hotter pad, there's nothing more that the stock rears need.
Is it just for looks? With all the great performance improving parts available for the WRX, I can think of MANY things I'd rather spend money on.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
I keep seeing this question come up time and again. Why do you need a rear brake kit?
It's not with respect to braking power, the stock rear brakes are fine, since they are not doing much work in stopping the car in general.
It's not temperature related. We run the stock rear brakes in the USTCC car with no issues whatsoever. Other than braided lines and a hotter pad, there's nothing more that the stock rears need.
Is it just for looks? With all the great performance improving parts available for the WRX, I can think of MANY things I'd rather spend money on.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
For some reason everyone seems to thing that the rear is tied to the front. It's not.
The rears and fronts are sized based on vehicle weight, weight distribution, center of gravity, dive rate and tire friction. You don't increase the rear brake torque just because you increased the front.
Go to this site http://mysite.verizon.net/romano.michael/ and then under contents go to stopping force calculations and you can see what I mean.
In basic terms: The front stops the car and the rear stabilizes it. You really want the rears to have just enough stopping force to keep the car from spinning.
12-29-2002, 12:20 PM
#28
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Originally posted by gtguy
Voodoo. The same reason they want strut tower bars. Because people like to go for things that aren't necessarily grounded in reality.
Kevin
Voodoo. The same reason they want strut tower bars. Because people like to go for things that aren't necessarily grounded in reality.
Kevin
CT
12-29-2002, 12:24 PM
#29
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why is everyone looking for a rear brake kit?
Originally posted by GarySheehan
I keep seeing this question come up time and again. Why do you need a rear brake kit?
It's not with respect to braking power, the stock rear brakes are fine, since they are not doing much work in stopping the car in general.
It's not temperature related. We run the stock rear brakes in the USTCC car with no issues whatsoever. Other than braided lines and a hotter pad, there's nothing more that the stock rears need.
Is it just for looks? With all the great performance improving parts available for the WRX, I can think of MANY things I'd rather spend money on.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
I keep seeing this question come up time and again. Why do you need a rear brake kit?
It's not with respect to braking power, the stock rear brakes are fine, since they are not doing much work in stopping the car in general.
It's not temperature related. We run the stock rear brakes in the USTCC car with no issues whatsoever. Other than braided lines and a hotter pad, there's nothing more that the stock rears need.
Is it just for looks? With all the great performance improving parts available for the WRX, I can think of MANY things I'd rather spend money on.
Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
Scenario: You go out for a track event. You over brake your setup causing front brake fade. Many times due to lack of driving skill and not managing your brakes. Front brakes fade causing more load to be placed on rear brakes. Rear brakes are solid rotors. They warp and or catch on fire as mind did in a 20 minute enduro. Hence one reason people think you need a rear brake upgrade. In reality if the front brakes where upgraded with the right pads, Ducts, fluid and or a better brake kit, less load is placed on the rear brakes and they work as they do in your car.
My .2
CT
12-29-2002, 12:47 PM
#30
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Location: Alameda, CA, USA
Posts: 6,965
Car Info: 02 Black Legacy GT
Even a lighter "old" GC8 STi had bigger/better brakes than we do here. Same goes for the New Age STi with huge Brembo's in the rear.
Rear brakes, as pretty much any other mods you plan on putting on your car are "not needed".
What Gary needs and uses on the track is not neseceraly the best for those who drive on the street. One factor which plays a bigger role than even the size of the rotor is the tire. Then there is curb weight. I am not sure how much "Gary" weights now, but I am sure it is less than a regular stock WRX. Also, where that weight is located is also important.
It is not right no compare braking performance of a fully built race car to a car that people drive everyday.
- Alex
Rear brakes, as pretty much any other mods you plan on putting on your car are "not needed".
What Gary needs and uses on the track is not neseceraly the best for those who drive on the street. One factor which plays a bigger role than even the size of the rotor is the tire. Then there is curb weight. I am not sure how much "Gary" weights now, but I am sure it is less than a regular stock WRX. Also, where that weight is located is also important.
It is not right no compare braking performance of a fully built race car to a car that people drive everyday.
- Alex