Brake Failure -- Dealer to Blame?
11-30-2008, 07:53 AM
#91
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Wow. Just stumbled upon this thread. I just have to say that clamping the line like that could damage in inner nylon tube. Very bad idea. Also, someone mentioned steel braided lines, most are constructed with the same sort of tube inside and you could clamp them just like the picture. The only time that I have ever seen something like that used is to clamp cooling lines on karts.
Bill
Bill
12-01-2008, 10:41 AM
#92
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Again, it never says the wheel locked. He says "the brake stayed locked" but I think he meant "clamped" as again, there needs to be TONS of friction to make that much heat. The rotor would not be red hot like that if the brake and wheel had locked. Also, if he had locked a rear wheel like that, as Gagan said, he would have experienced shock oversteer along the lines of if the handbrake had been pulled. IMHO the red rotor is plenty of evidence that the wheel did not lock, but there was a good amount of constant abnormal pressure, after the panic stop, on the line which caused the friction needed to deep fry the rotor.
If he were travelling at speed on the freeway, it would be highly unlikely that he would smell his rear brake burning until he stopped.
I am also not affiliated with anyone here and the only person I have met was you when I let you borrow my intake for a smog.
If he were travelling at speed on the freeway, it would be highly unlikely that he would smell his rear brake burning until he stopped.
I am also not affiliated with anyone here and the only person I have met was you when I let you borrow my intake for a smog.
But yes, the wheel didn't lock when driving but probably did once he stopped. Either way, what I don't understand is how he didn't have this happen sooner, cause lets be honest, we live in a area of high traffic and major stop and go traffic, and this all happens at high speed, everyday. I can't imagine that he wasn't stomping the brake pedal at least once or twice a day, cause we ALL do it. That's what I don't get, why so long after did this happen, and not earlier. Cause if he's about to say he drive surface streets to work and the commute is short, he's ****ing lying... cause he said Months right... and I know he put some real deal miles on that car.
So why didn't this happen sooner? That's what I want to know.
12-01-2008, 04:01 PM
#93
He mentioned the car dragging and I read that as dragging a wheel, which is why i didn't understand how he didn't crash
But yes, the wheel didn't lock when driving but probably did once he stopped. Either way, what I don't understand is how he didn't have this happen sooner, cause lets be honest, we live in a area of high traffic and major stop and go traffic, and this all happens at high speed, everyday. I can't imagine that he wasn't stomping the brake pedal at least once or twice a day, cause we ALL do it. That's what I don't get, why so long after did this happen, and not earlier. Cause if he's about to say he drive surface streets to work and the commute is short, he's ****ing lying... cause he said Months right... and I know he put some real deal miles on that car.
So why didn't this happen sooner? That's what I want to know.
But yes, the wheel didn't lock when driving but probably did once he stopped. Either way, what I don't understand is how he didn't have this happen sooner, cause lets be honest, we live in a area of high traffic and major stop and go traffic, and this all happens at high speed, everyday. I can't imagine that he wasn't stomping the brake pedal at least once or twice a day, cause we ALL do it. That's what I don't get, why so long after did this happen, and not earlier. Cause if he's about to say he drive surface streets to work and the commute is short, he's ****ing lying... cause he said Months right... and I know he put some real deal miles on that car.
So why didn't this happen sooner? That's what I want to know.
where is the OP
02-20-2009, 03:03 PM
#94
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 61
Car Info: 2006 STi
Wow, I stopped following this thread shortly after I posted it up -- didn't realize how much of a battle it had turned into. Let's me answer some of the questions and give an update on the situation:
1. The mileage between time of service and the incident was about 2,500. Roughly three months of running errands around town. This car isn't my daily driver. Like I mentioned in the OP, the brake locked up only after I slammed on the brakes on the freeway to avoid an accident. When I say slammed, I mean I was very deep into the ABS going roughly 85 mph. In the intervening two months I hadn't been in a situation where I had to apply even close to that much braking force.
2. The wheel didn't lock up. I was doing a consistent 85 mph on the freeway after I slammed the brakes and resumed speed. Wheel didn't lock at that speed, but the rear brake in question was definitely applied. I didn't smell burning brakes -- probably because of the speed at which I was going -- and the windows were all up. At 85 mph I didn't notice an appreciable drag, but it became more pronounced as I slowed down for my exit. This makes sense to me, as one rear brake is probably going to account for no more than 15% of total braking power.
Anyways, it remains a mystery to me why the clamp was put on my brake line. No one else serviced the car (myself included) between the initial 30k service and the incident on the freeway.
As for the current update. I sent a lengthy write-up of the situation along with photos, receipts, etc. to the president and the head of the service department over at Stevens Creek Subaru, hoping for an amicable settlement. It's been over two weeks with no reply. I gave them until Feb. 10 to respond, so at this point it looks like the next step will be taking it up w/ BAR or small claims court.
If you have any further questions, I'll try and do a better job of keeping an eye on this thread.
Thanks,
Jonathan
1. The mileage between time of service and the incident was about 2,500. Roughly three months of running errands around town. This car isn't my daily driver. Like I mentioned in the OP, the brake locked up only after I slammed on the brakes on the freeway to avoid an accident. When I say slammed, I mean I was very deep into the ABS going roughly 85 mph. In the intervening two months I hadn't been in a situation where I had to apply even close to that much braking force.
2. The wheel didn't lock up. I was doing a consistent 85 mph on the freeway after I slammed the brakes and resumed speed. Wheel didn't lock at that speed, but the rear brake in question was definitely applied. I didn't smell burning brakes -- probably because of the speed at which I was going -- and the windows were all up. At 85 mph I didn't notice an appreciable drag, but it became more pronounced as I slowed down for my exit. This makes sense to me, as one rear brake is probably going to account for no more than 15% of total braking power.
Anyways, it remains a mystery to me why the clamp was put on my brake line. No one else serviced the car (myself included) between the initial 30k service and the incident on the freeway.
As for the current update. I sent a lengthy write-up of the situation along with photos, receipts, etc. to the president and the head of the service department over at Stevens Creek Subaru, hoping for an amicable settlement. It's been over two weeks with no reply. I gave them until Feb. 10 to respond, so at this point it looks like the next step will be taking it up w/ BAR or small claims court.
If you have any further questions, I'll try and do a better job of keeping an eye on this thread.
Thanks,
Jonathan
06-08-2009, 10:39 PM
#96
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 61
Car Info: 2006 STi
Finally Resolved
So seven months after my brakes originally caught on fire on the freeway, the incident has finally been resolved. Here's the summary, for those that are interested.
Like I mentioned in my last post, despite repeated attempts to contact both the Service Manager and President of Stevens Creek Subaru, I never heard back from anyone. I ended up filing in Small Claims Court in March, asking them to reimburse me for what I spent at Auto HQ repairing the damage they caused (see the original post for the full story of the damage). It was roughly $1,500.
The court date was set for April 22nd. On the appointed date, Arleigh Amante (the Service Manager) and the shop foreman, Mitch (can't remember his last name) showed up to defend the dealership. As is the norm with small claims cases, before we went in front of the judge, we met out in the hall with a mediator to try and reach an amicable settlement. After speaking with the mediator, I got the impression that Arleigh and Mitch would have been happy to settle out of court, but after a phone call to their boss and President of the dealership, Oscar Bakhtiari, they said that wasn't going to be an option.
We went before the judge. I explained what had happened and submitted all the evidence I had (photos, written statements from my mechanic, receipts, etc.). Arleigh and Mitch argued that their dealership would not have done this and that it's not their procedure to do something like this. They also admitted, however, that neither of them had actually worked on or seen the car when it had come in.
In the end, the judge ruled in my favor and entered a judgement against the dealership. Now, six weeks and a few phone calls later, I finally have a check in my hands from Stevens Creek Subaru.
So it's nice to have the money reimbursed, but frankly, I'm still very disappointed that it had to come to this. If they had, up front, admitted their mistake and repaired the damage at no cost, we could have avoided all this hassle and they could have avoided the negative publicity that this kind of thing brings. I understand mistakes happen, but outright denying any responsibility and then accusing your customer of sabotaging his own vehicle is unethical and wrong at best, criminal at worst. The parts department guys are nice, but I can't in good conscience recommend their dealership to anyone anymore.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Like I mentioned in my last post, despite repeated attempts to contact both the Service Manager and President of Stevens Creek Subaru, I never heard back from anyone. I ended up filing in Small Claims Court in March, asking them to reimburse me for what I spent at Auto HQ repairing the damage they caused (see the original post for the full story of the damage). It was roughly $1,500.
The court date was set for April 22nd. On the appointed date, Arleigh Amante (the Service Manager) and the shop foreman, Mitch (can't remember his last name) showed up to defend the dealership. As is the norm with small claims cases, before we went in front of the judge, we met out in the hall with a mediator to try and reach an amicable settlement. After speaking with the mediator, I got the impression that Arleigh and Mitch would have been happy to settle out of court, but after a phone call to their boss and President of the dealership, Oscar Bakhtiari, they said that wasn't going to be an option.
We went before the judge. I explained what had happened and submitted all the evidence I had (photos, written statements from my mechanic, receipts, etc.). Arleigh and Mitch argued that their dealership would not have done this and that it's not their procedure to do something like this. They also admitted, however, that neither of them had actually worked on or seen the car when it had come in.
In the end, the judge ruled in my favor and entered a judgement against the dealership. Now, six weeks and a few phone calls later, I finally have a check in my hands from Stevens Creek Subaru.
So it's nice to have the money reimbursed, but frankly, I'm still very disappointed that it had to come to this. If they had, up front, admitted their mistake and repaired the damage at no cost, we could have avoided all this hassle and they could have avoided the negative publicity that this kind of thing brings. I understand mistakes happen, but outright denying any responsibility and then accusing your customer of sabotaging his own vehicle is unethical and wrong at best, criminal at worst. The parts department guys are nice, but I can't in good conscience recommend their dealership to anyone anymore.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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