zaphod

Hi Everyone,

My brother-in-law purchased a new 2005 2.5 RS a few months back, making it the ninth Subaru in our extended family. He has burned oil since day one, and finally the dealer (Hatfield Subaru in Columbus, Ohio) agreed to do an "oil study" for 3000 miles.

The average oil consumption is 2/3 qt. per 1000 miles! That's incredible! That's 2 qts. per 3000 miles, which is almost half the oil capacity! If we go to the new standard of 5000 mile oil changes, that's 3 1/3 qts., which is 80% of the oil capacity! No other Subaru in our family (that's eight of them), including the 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 engines burn any measurable amount of oil.

He was running Amsoil 5w-30 from the start, as are most of us (and using 20,000 mile change intervals, btw), and of course as soon as he takes it into the dealer they dump out the $25 worth of fresh Amsoil and put Quaker State organic junk in there. He's not hard on the car at all, and does a lot of highway driving.

I own a 2000 2.5 RS, have 119,000 miles, redline gears 1-3 virtually every time I use them, redline gear 4 often, change my Amsoil filter every 10,000 miles and my Amsoil oil every 20,000 miles, and have virtually no oil consumption. My wife has a 2004 Legacy GT, now with around 22,000 miles, and she also burns no oil. Also on the no-oil-burning list is a 1995 Impreza L, 1996 Impreza OBS, 1999 Legacy GT, 2000 Forester L, 2000 Impreza L, and a 2001 Outback H6. Every vehicle but one uses Amsoil and extended drain intervals.

This is his first new car, and after completing this dealer's "study" he's at around 10,000 miles and is burning way too much oil. The dealer says the "industry standard" rate of consumption is 1 qt. per 1000 miles or less, and I say that's completely crap. I've never heard of a car in my family burning that much oil, and that even includes a bunch of domestic junkers!

So what's our next avenue of support? He's going to start writing/pestering SOA, and I told him I'd recommend that after a couple months, if he makes no headway with SOA, that he should start pestering Fuji... he should ask why their "Driven by What's Inside" finely-engineered normal-aspirated Japanese engine burns more oil than an American junker. I also think that if he doesn't make any headway with SOA that he should write the local newspaper and trash Subaru's "reliable car" reputation they have here. I'm sure SOA would love someone comparing a Subaru to a Hyundai or Kia for reliability standards... That might make some notice since Subaru sales in Ohio are up a LOT the past five years, and we have three dealers in Columbus.

So what does everyone else think?
What are his options?
Heard anything different from SOA in the past?
Anyone with a similar experience?

J

yzercyber

If the car is burning 2/3 quarts of oil in 1000 miles, it's going to be a arguable issue. From what I've seen from my Subaru waranty information and what I've heard here about Subaru experiences, Subaru may or may not fix the problem unless it's obvious to them that the probem resulted from abuse of the engine in some way. If you have established a good relationship with your dealership, they might be happy to fix it for you... it's their call at 2/3 quart.

I would certainly consider valve or ring repair if my car was burning that much under normal driving conditions. One quart per 1,000 miles is the industry threshhold, but I think that's awfully high. One quart per 1000 is going to make a lot of smoke.

One thing is for sure, the convential oil was NOT the problem if was of the recommended type and viscosity. I ran a turbocharged four banger ('90 Eclipse GS Turbo) for 13 years and 260K miles on conventionall Castrol GTX 20W-40. When I sold it, it burned about 3/4 quart per 4000 miles. I still use Castrol GTX in my WRX.

If I recall, my Subaru warranty states oil has to be changed every 3500-3750 miles whether it is conventional oil or synthetic.

Absolutely no doubt that I'd rather have an engine that was run on conventional 10W-30 and given oil & filter changes very 4K miles than the same engine run on synthetic with 20K changes.

zaphod

Well we never had a chance to get to the point in which we'd consider extended oil changes in his car since we were still changing it often because of break-in period when he took it into the dealer. He was always easy on the engine since he really had intended on the car lasting him practically forever.

And I know oil is like religion and politics, but for what it's worth, Amsoil oil and filters are extremely good and they specify under normal driving conditions that you can go 12,500 miles on the filter and 25,000 miles on the oil. My whole family uses Amsoil oil and filters and have had nothing but great results.

The 1996 Impreza OBS I mentioned was in for a timing belt replacement at 130,000 miles and since the mechanic also recommended replacing the water pump since it was in the same difficult-to-get-to area, my father went ahead and gave them the go-ahead. Unfortunately, this mechanic (Byers Subaru on the NE side of Columbus, btw) used way too much sealant on the new pump and the sealant made its way into an oil passage, eventually clogging it and collapsing a lifter. Of course they denied that the collapsed lifter had anything to do with their work, so my father took it to Hatfield Subaru where their sole Subaru mechanic, Keith, tore the engine apart and found the sealant blocking the oil passage.

This mechanic also remarked that the engine looked brand new and clean inside and was thoroughly convinced then that Amsoil lived up to its reputation.

The Amsoil competitive tests are all available at their website, www.Amsoil.com, and one of the latest tests even shows how they stack up against the ultra-expensive "de facto best" Mobil1 oil. Check it out if you're curious.

I think Amsoil made a bad decision to market their product only through dealers around the country instead of getting their product on the shelf at the major retail outlets. This had always made getting the oil somewhat inconvenient. But lately they have started to change that and now even the NAPA stores in Columbus carry it, plus there's a new Amsoil warehouse in Columbus, and you can order directly from the Amsoil website. Glad to see them coming around.

yzercyber

I've looked into using synthetic from time to time. My issue with synthetic is not the lubricating quality, superior long life or the excellent resistance to heat breakdown that synthetic has. After all, the stuff was developed for use in gas turbine engines! My concern is that any oil will collect water and many other chemical byproducts of combustion, and will carry it around as long as the oil is in the engine. Oil filters do nothing to remove liquid-state contaminants from oil. Not to mention metal particals that are too small for the filter to trap.

So, since I want to drain that oil out and change filters before 4K miles have past and I'm not driving under severe conditions, I might as well save lotso $$$ by buying the good old Castrol GTX by the case. Recommended quality conventional oil will not break down under "normal" turbo driving conditions for at least 4K miles.

But I hear you, the synthetic/conventional oil issue is like religion and politics, pepsi vs. coke or favorite brands of gas...

zaphod

Yep, absolutely. If you're going to change your oil frequently, I'd personally prefer to save the money by using organic oil. Changing out any synthetic that frequently would quickly drain your pocket book.

I can't seem to find it now, but I believe in the past I read on Amsoil's site that their SDF oil filters filtered down to just a couple microns... That's pretty crazy and I'd haphazard to say that in a normal engine, particles of the size that would get through that filter really don't matter much.

But you're right about moisture. Amsoil does have this 2-filter bypass system they sell for heavy truck and bus engines that is capable of actually trapping the moisture. Pretty crazy cool, but I don't really feel like fitting it to my Impreza, haha.

I broke my car in with Valvoline organic, then around 5,000 switched to Valvoline DuraBlend (50/50 mix of organic with synthetic) and then around 12,000 switched to Valvoline Syntec (full synthetic). Shortly after that I discovered Amsoil and have been using it ever since, as have my family.

You know, with so many Subaru vehicles in my family, and my brother-in-law really trusting on me that I know good and reliable cars, and seeing all of the success I've had with mine with how I abuse it every time I drive, it just disappoints me that he is the one to get stuck with the lemon.

He works at a large public accounting firm and until just this week he hasn't mentioned to anyone in the office about the oil problem, but finally after the "conclusion" of the oil study and the dealer's insistence that it's perfect fine to burn that much oil, he's had enough and he mentioned that he told everyone in a conference room with him not to buy a Subaru.

I can't say I blame him. I've always known that SOA is the weak-link in the Fuji-to-consumer chain, and it's a shame. SOA makes us pay more for our cars, gives us less options and accessories for the money, and to top it off, sports one of the lousiest customer service reputations in the country. I would have thought Fuji would have noticed, and in Japanese tradition, taken action to remedy the situation.

yzercyber

Amsoil does mention the word "micron" in discussing a study someone else made about oil filter pass values:

http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/oilfilters.shtml

But they don't actually say what the pass rate of their SFD filters is in the specification page... microns, inches, or feet!

http://www.bestsyntheticoil.com/amso...echnical.shtml

Remember, 50-75 microns is the diameter of a human hair. I would think that even 5 micron contamination (for example) could cause serious abrasion.