Conspiracy against STI?
02-11-2004 | 02:20 PM
#16
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I know the inline 4 is quite different than the Mazda Rotary. I was using it as an example of a highly boosted small motor that cannot withstand the boost. So is the EVO more delicate than the STI or not? I'm talking drivetrain and engine with mods longevity.
02-11-2004 | 02:23 PM
#17
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 119
From: mpls, mn
Car Info: 04 wrx sedan
to be fair, the USDM evo lacks the active yaw control and active center differential that made the car great. it's like importing GT-R and take out ATTESA and super HICAS!
granted, with those handling gizmos, the evo would have been pushing $40 grand and sell about 100 cars
granted, with those handling gizmos, the evo would have been pushing $40 grand and sell about 100 cars
02-11-2004 | 02:37 PM
#18
The evo is really cool. I like th sti better. I like subaru better so this is obviosly my choice. Honestly though when can you even take a corner on the street that the sti or hell even the lumpy little wrx can't handle. If you want a pure track car without spending the $ the evo is better. I mostly drive on the street. Anyway with less than $600 you can have f/r swaybars. Bingo!
02-11-2004 | 02:43 PM
#19
Yes the EVO lacks AYC and ACD like its japanese counter part..... and the STi has DCCD and limited slip front. But bottom line is the EVO out handles the STi until suspension mods are done (who knows). I think lack of DCCD and limited slip can be made up by driver skill. You have to remember both have not been pushed to the limits by the manufacturers as the manufacturers always maintain a large margin of safety. So just because one engine has a lower boost level doesn't mean squat (remember one is iron the other is aluminium)..... it depends on how much boost can be added over what is stock after exhaust mods are made and what HP you gain from it... and how much power you derive out of that to the wheels..... also you have to know if the transmission can take that much power?. We don't yet know of the long term damage that can/is being done to a modded STi engine as it is relatively new, that only time will tell. But at least we know how much the stock EVO engine can take and how long it will last as it has been out there longer. Personally I bought an 03 WRX =)
Last edited by DaWorstPlaya; 02-11-2004 at 05:18 PM.
02-11-2004 | 04:49 PM
#20
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3
From: NE
Car Info: Mitsubishi
Before I jump into this with a reply, I'd like to state that I do in fact own an Evolution.
As DaWorstPlaya pointed out, the lack of AYC, ACD can be made up in driver skill. The Evolution can be modded to STi's power level with a cat-back and reflash and/or MBC (<$1,000). (the car runs extremely rich from the factory). The clutch quite possibly will go out prematurely due to hard launches. Quite frankly I'd rather my clutch go than my tranny.
For roughly the same price as an STi the Evolution can be in the same power range. So beyond looks, which varies person to person, with a "general" acceptence that the Evolution has a better exterior whereas the STi has a better interior. Excluding reliability which is ambigious and too early to tell for both US models. What are we left with? handling, there are a lot of variables when it comes to handling... tires, driver, suspension, road conditions. One could say that the Evolution has better "stock" handling than the STi just as the STi has a bit more horsepower. It's a trade off, it becomes a personal choice ... go test drive both if you can.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the STi and Evolution are here in the United States and applaud both companies and all the '02-'03 WRX buyers who made it possible.
As DaWorstPlaya pointed out, the lack of AYC, ACD can be made up in driver skill. The Evolution can be modded to STi's power level with a cat-back and reflash and/or MBC (<$1,000). (the car runs extremely rich from the factory). The clutch quite possibly will go out prematurely due to hard launches. Quite frankly I'd rather my clutch go than my tranny.
For roughly the same price as an STi the Evolution can be in the same power range. So beyond looks, which varies person to person, with a "general" acceptence that the Evolution has a better exterior whereas the STi has a better interior. Excluding reliability which is ambigious and too early to tell for both US models. What are we left with? handling, there are a lot of variables when it comes to handling... tires, driver, suspension, road conditions. One could say that the Evolution has better "stock" handling than the STi just as the STi has a bit more horsepower. It's a trade off, it becomes a personal choice ... go test drive both if you can.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the STi and Evolution are here in the United States and applaud both companies and all the '02-'03 WRX buyers who made it possible.
02-11-2004 | 08:31 PM
#23
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There has been little I've read in any of the reviews that would put me off buying either of these cars. As an owner of a Subaru, it is disappointing to see the automotive press chosing its main rival in head to head comparisons. That said, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, car magazines typically put their test cars through situations that a normal car owner wouldn't dream of. So ask yourself what is your purpose for buying the car? Will you be at the track regularly? Are you the type who challenges the guy next to you at every stoplight? Do you plan on driving it to and from work with maybe some back-road storming on the weekends? To be honest, there isn't a hell of a lot of difference between the two cars, performance-wise. Looks are subjective. I wish the wing on the STi were an option but that's just me. I have a Subaru right now and love its handling, performance and the fact that it has been bulletproof in the reliability department through 83k miles (that works out to about 20k a year).
Consider this as well, in the sidebar to the C&D road test, in which the Evo took top spot, a retired professional driver took both cars in their stock format around a one mile dirt course and the difference in their lap times was a quarter of a second. If that quarter second difference means that much to you, then by all means, head to the Mitsubishi dealer and buy an Evo. If the quarter of a second doesn't make that much difference for the type of driving you intend to do with the car, then other factors will come into play, subjective things like looks, interior quality, hell, even your experience at the dealership may play a part in the choice you make. So take them both for a drive and buy one. You really can't lose.
Consider this as well, in the sidebar to the C&D road test, in which the Evo took top spot, a retired professional driver took both cars in their stock format around a one mile dirt course and the difference in their lap times was a quarter of a second. If that quarter second difference means that much to you, then by all means, head to the Mitsubishi dealer and buy an Evo. If the quarter of a second doesn't make that much difference for the type of driving you intend to do with the car, then other factors will come into play, subjective things like looks, interior quality, hell, even your experience at the dealership may play a part in the choice you make. So take them both for a drive and buy one. You really can't lose.
02-11-2004 | 08:32 PM
#24
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Originally posted by r5194o
Ookami, u got it right....Cheers to both for improving our market......I do prefer the version 6 Evo look to the version 8....but I also prefer the 2.5RS looks to the WRX or STI....Both are great cars....
Ookami, u got it right....Cheers to both for improving our market......I do prefer the version 6 Evo look to the version 8....but I also prefer the 2.5RS looks to the WRX or STI....Both are great cars....
02-11-2004 | 09:20 PM
#25
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,029
From: Sacramento CA
Car Info: 02 Impreza WRX sedan
You can - I-Speed.
The last issue of Sport Compact Car featured a how-to article on dropping the EJ20 turbo into just about any OBD-II Subaru, courtesy of I-Speed.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
The last issue of Sport Compact Car featured a how-to article on dropping the EJ20 turbo into just about any OBD-II Subaru, courtesy of I-Speed.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
02-11-2004 | 09:27 PM
#26
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Posts: n/a
I saw that issue. I couldn't remember which magazine it was from. The most ambitious mechanical undertaking I've ever performed was replacing the stock headlights in my '87 Audi Coupe GT (the stock lights bordered on hazardous) with big beautiful European spec lights I purchased and had shipped from England. When I saw the article about the engine switch I was intrigued, but when I saw some of the photos, complete with the spaghetti like wiring strewn everywhere, I quickly came to my senses. Although I will check out that site. I would love to keep my car and bring it up to Euro specs, or at least current WRX standards.
02-12-2004 | 04:20 AM
#27
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Posts: n/a
I cant really comment on the USDM market. I will say this if you think that the Evo will rock an STi all the time you might need a trip over to Japan.
I have done a little stop light racing now and then. I have raced an Evo 7 with my 94 back when it had the Ver 2 STi engine, Profec B boost controller and HKS DP and a few suspension mods. Yoshi who owns the Evo had a boost controller as well and a few other goodies. We both took off and he pulled about a car length at the start and thats where he stayed the whole way not pulling another inch up to about 170km/h when we let off. SO for a 94 engine vs the supposedly superior EVO I think it held its own. These cars are huge rivals neither of them giving the other an inch of space to relax. Mod for Mod its gonna come down to the driver. As for out of the box handling the Evo has always had that for as far as I can remember reading in most Japanese mags. That can be corrected with some suspension mods which most people do anyway.
Thats my .02
I have done a little stop light racing now and then. I have raced an Evo 7 with my 94 back when it had the Ver 2 STi engine, Profec B boost controller and HKS DP and a few suspension mods. Yoshi who owns the Evo had a boost controller as well and a few other goodies. We both took off and he pulled about a car length at the start and thats where he stayed the whole way not pulling another inch up to about 170km/h when we let off. SO for a 94 engine vs the supposedly superior EVO I think it held its own. These cars are huge rivals neither of them giving the other an inch of space to relax. Mod for Mod its gonna come down to the driver. As for out of the box handling the Evo has always had that for as far as I can remember reading in most Japanese mags. That can be corrected with some suspension mods which most people do anyway.
Thats my .02
02-12-2004 | 07:37 AM
#28
Originally posted by Ookami
Before I jump into this with a reply, I'd like to state that I do in fact own an Evolution.
As DaWorstPlaya pointed out, the lack of AYC, ACD can be made up in driver skill. The Evolution can be modded to STi's power level with a cat-back and reflash and/or MBC (<$1,000). (the car runs extremely rich from the factory). The clutch quite possibly will go out prematurely due to hard launches. Quite frankly I'd rather my clutch go than my tranny.
For roughly the same price as an STi the Evolution can be in the same power range. So beyond looks, which varies person to person, with a "general" acceptence that the Evolution has a better exterior whereas the STi has a better interior. Excluding reliability which is ambigious and too early to tell for both US models. What are we left with? handling, there are a lot of variables when it comes to handling... tires, driver, suspension, road conditions. One could say that the Evolution has better "stock" handling than the STi just as the STi has a bit more horsepower. It's a trade off, it becomes a personal choice ... go test drive both if you can.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the STi and Evolution are here in the United States and applaud both companies and all the '02-'03 WRX buyers who made it possible.
Before I jump into this with a reply, I'd like to state that I do in fact own an Evolution.
As DaWorstPlaya pointed out, the lack of AYC, ACD can be made up in driver skill. The Evolution can be modded to STi's power level with a cat-back and reflash and/or MBC (<$1,000). (the car runs extremely rich from the factory). The clutch quite possibly will go out prematurely due to hard launches. Quite frankly I'd rather my clutch go than my tranny.
For roughly the same price as an STi the Evolution can be in the same power range. So beyond looks, which varies person to person, with a "general" acceptence that the Evolution has a better exterior whereas the STi has a better interior. Excluding reliability which is ambigious and too early to tell for both US models. What are we left with? handling, there are a lot of variables when it comes to handling... tires, driver, suspension, road conditions. One could say that the Evolution has better "stock" handling than the STi just as the STi has a bit more horsepower. It's a trade off, it becomes a personal choice ... go test drive both if you can.
Personally, I'm quite happy that the STi and Evolution are here in the United States and applaud both companies and all the '02-'03 WRX buyers who made it possible.
-Gagan
02-12-2004 | 10:12 AM
#29
Both cars are great.
As for the talk about block material, and the statements about what can handle more boost:
Most force from more boost is put on your head.
The heating properties of aluminum although different than steel are not better or worse. So it heats up fast and cools fast. Since is coupled with a aluminum head than there shouldnt be a problemm, thermal expansion is then timed.
A steel block and aluminum head on the other hand have had problems in the past. The head cools fast and the block is still hot, WARP CITY.
Cooling is so good these days that its really not a problem either way.
As for the talk about block material, and the statements about what can handle more boost:
Most force from more boost is put on your head.
The heating properties of aluminum although different than steel are not better or worse. So it heats up fast and cools fast. Since is coupled with a aluminum head than there shouldnt be a problemm, thermal expansion is then timed.
A steel block and aluminum head on the other hand have had problems in the past. The head cools fast and the block is still hot, WARP CITY.
Cooling is so good these days that its really not a problem either way.
02-12-2004 | 03:21 PM
#30
Originally posted by joshuagore
Both cars are great.
Most force from more boost is put on your head.
Both cars are great.
Most force from more boost is put on your head.
But it is hard to say how they contract and expand with respect to the main block. That would involve a decent knowledge of Thermodynamics (co-efficient of thermal expansion, cross-sectional area, mass of the material etc... ).
Also may I add the WRX has a larger gas tank by 2 whole more gallons, if that comes into your equation .....
Last edited by DaWorstPlaya; 02-12-2004 at 03:36 PM.