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04 WRX Wagon or 04 Forester XT?

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Old 02-15-2004, 09:19 PM
  #16  
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In stock form the XT feels pretty numb. I've put in some SG STi JDM Forester springs, 20mm USDM STi rear sway bar and OZ 17" Superlegs and it has done wonders. The drop was about 1.5" total with the springs and wheels. It's not as tight as my RS was with the P1 setup but it's more tolerable day to day.

FWIW the Forester's 210 BHP was under rated, people have put them on the Dyno and gotten more than that. I've seen dyno results anywhere form 174 - 207 at the wheels. Stock, a local guy pulled a 13.84 in the 1/4 mile. Pretty soon Cobb will have a reflash that will do wonders The motor is the same as the STi with a smaller IC and Turbo, possibly the intake (not confirmed yet) but it does have everything else like VVT, Drive by wire, Sodium filled valves and the like. The draw back is the MPG's with a 4.44 rear I'm getting around 21-22 MPG no matter how I drive.
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Old 02-15-2004, 09:48 PM
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ZuMBLe: Stupid Q: Why can't you test drive on weekends?
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Old 02-15-2004, 10:30 PM
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Sonicsuby:
I currently can't test drive on weekends because I've been working those too. The company I'm at is closing down so there is lots to do. Not sure what will happen with the next job. I suppose I could try to test drive on a weekend later on. Thing is, I won't be ready to buy till maybe 5 months from now. I'll also have to find a dealer with a manual F-XT for test driving.

Peaty:
How much did those upgrades run you? Would you be able to say it drives pretty much like a car now? After inital purchase I think I could spare another grand or two on mods.
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Old 02-16-2004, 04:22 AM
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Well first off the Forester is a car Whatever Subaru marketing wants you to believe, it's considered a passenger vehicle:



and yes now is handles a lot better. Some people have installed the 04" STi suspension and lowered it 3" but that's too much for me. My upgrades cost me:

~400 for SG STi springs (new), ~120 STi rear sway bar and mounting hardware (new) 800+ shipping for OZ wheels and tires (used). Not a lot, just adding the swaybar and tires makes a world of difference. The stock Geolanders are pretty crappy. I did switch over my 4-Pots and legacy rear brakes this weekend. Stops are much nicer too.

Lots of other forester mod and info in general here:

http://www.subaruforester.com
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Old 02-16-2004, 05:29 AM
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I think I read somewhere that the forester will be classified as a SUV next year. I don't know what the guidelines are for the classifications. I don't know of any 2.5 liter SUVs.

I think I'd be one of those people getting the 04 STi suspenion. I saw some pics of some guys on www.subaruforester.com who had it done and it looks good.

I agree with you on the wheel tire combo. Tires are the only thing that touch the road. People should pay more attention to them. Lots of accidents could be prevented if people got decent tires and maintained them.

Now I just need to have someone come out with a gauge bezel for the instrument cluster and I'm sold on the forester again. I want to have a boost and EGT gauge mounted in the instrument cluster area. The stock boost gauge seems to be a bit expensive for what it is. I'd rather have PSI readings too. Thinking of two small Defi gauges. =)

Thanks for all the info everyone!

-ZuM

Originally posted by Peaty
Well first off the Forester is a car Whatever Subaru marketing wants you to believe, it's considered a passenger vehicle:



and yes now is handles a lot better. Some people have installed the 04" STi suspension and lowered it 3" but that's too much for me. My upgrades cost me:

~400 for SG STi springs (new), ~120 STi rear sway bar and mounting hardware (new) 800+ shipping for OZ wheels and tires (used). Not a lot, just adding the swaybar and tires makes a world of difference. The stock Geolanders are pretty crappy. I did switch over my 4-Pots and legacy rear brakes this weekend. Stops are much nicer too.

Lots of other forester mod and info in general here:

http://www.subaruforester.com
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Old 02-16-2004, 06:49 AM
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I'm pretty sure it's the OB that they want to re-classify as an SUV and not the Forester.
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Old 02-16-2004, 07:57 AM
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That's strange... I would think the forester is more closely related to a SUV than the outback. The outback is more of a stationwagon.

Originally posted by Peaty
I'm pretty sure it's the OB that they want to re-classify as an SUV and not the Forester.
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:24 AM
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Peaty is correct - it's the outback.
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:26 AM
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the debate on that is at this link:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=479790

To Avoid Fuel Limits, Subaru Is Turning a Sedan Into a Truck

January 13, 2004
By DANNY HAKIM





DETROIT, Jan. 12 - The Subaru Outback sedan looks like any
other midsize car, with a trunk and comfortable seating for
four adults.

But Subaru is tweaking some parts of the Outback sedan and
wagon this year to meet the specifications of a light
truck, the same regulatory category used by pickups and
sport utilities. Why? Largely to avoid tougher fuel economy
and air pollution standards for cars.

It is the first time an automaker plans to make changes in
a sedan - like raising its ground clearance by about an
inch and a half - so it can qualify as a light truck. But
it is hardly the first time an automaker has taken
advantage of the nation's complex fuel regulations, which
divide each manufacturer's annual vehicle fleet into two
categories. Light trucks will have to average only 21.2
miles a gallon in the 2005 model year. By contrast, each
automaker's full fleet of passenger cars must average 27.5
miles a gallon.

The move will let Subaru sell more vehicles with
turbochargers, which pep up performance but hurt mileage
and increase pollution. "It was difficult to achieve
emissions performance with the turbos," said Fred D.
Adcock, executive vice president of Subaru of America. They
also made it hard to meet fleetwide fuel economy standards
for cars.

Subaru's strategy highlights what environmentalists,
consumer groups and some politicians say is a loophole in
the fuel economy regulations that has undermined the
government's ability to actually cut gas consumption. The
average fuel economy for new vehicles is lower now than it
was two decades ago, despite advances in fuel-saving
technology.

"This is a new low for the auto industry, and it would make
George Orwell proud," said Daniel Becker, a global warming
expert at the Sierra Club.

It is particularly striking that Subaru wants to call the
Outback a light truck because many of its owners see the
wagon version as a rugged alternative to a sport utility,
and the Outback sells best in those parts of the country,
like college towns, where many people think it
unfashionable to own an S.U.V.

"I probably can't count my friends with Outbacks on one
hand - I'd have to use feet and toes," said Elizabeth Ike,
29, a fund-raiser at Sweet Briar College, which is an hour
south of Charlottesville, Va. She said "the Outback might
as well be Charlottesville's official car," adding that the
town "likes to think of itself as an island that is more
globally aware than the rest of the state."
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Old 02-16-2004, 09:27 AM
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"I don't want to speak for my friends, but I think they
probably don't want to be that person in the Excursion,"
she said, referring to Ford's largest sport utility.

Subaru, a unit of Fuji Heavy Industries, says the new
Outback, which will make its debut next month at the
Chicago auto show and go on sale this spring, will retain
its not-an-S.U.V. image because the changes being made are
technical in nature. What customers will notice will be the
new Outback's glossier look, executives said. Further, the
base model will be more fuel efficient than the current
version.

They said that calling the Outback a light truck will also
let them offer the option of a tinted rear window not
allowed on passenger cars.

Subaru executives noted that the sedan version of the
Outback accounts for only about 8 percent of the model's
sales, or about 3,500 vehicles a year; the rest are wagons.
But critics say the actual numbers are less important than
the precedent that the reclassification would set.

"If they can do it with a sedan, then anyone can do it with
a sedan," said John DeCicco, a senior fellow and fuel
economy expert at Environmental Defense. "It's almost like
anything goes at this point."

Federal regulations originally set less-stringent fuel
economy and emissions requirements for light trucks to
avoid penalizing builders, farmers and other working people
who relied on pickups. But the exemption opened the way for
automakers to replace sedans and station wagons with
vehicles that fit the definition of a light truck, notably
sport utility vehicles and minivans.

Light trucks now account for more than half of all
passenger vehicles sold in the country, up from about a
fifth in the late 1970's.

The Transportation Department oversees corporate average
fuel economy regulations and fines companies that do not
comply with the rules.

Companies that change a borderline vehicle can benefit in
two ways, because a big wagon that can sink an automaker's
car average may improve its truck average. That, in turn,
makes it possible to produce more big trucks and still meet
the overall truck standard.

Since the regulatory system was put in place after the oil
shocks of the 1970's, the industry has not only invented
the minivan and greatly expanded the sport utility and
pickup markets, but also started selling wagonlike
"crossover" vehicles, like Chrysler's PT Cruiser, that
blend cars and S.U.V.'s but are designed to meet the
specifications of light trucks.

There are different ways to make a car meet the federal
definition of a light truck, including making the rear
seats removable to give a wagon a flat loading floor or
raising a vehicle's ground clearance to at least 20
centimeters, or a little less than 8 inches. Subaru will
raise the Outback's height from a minimum of 7.3 inches to
as much as 8.7 inches next year, and will make other
adjustments, like altering the position of the rear bumper,
to meet light truck specifications.

Significantly raising the ride height can have a hazardous
effect on a vehicle's stability. Part of the current
Outback's appeal is that it performs better than S.U.V.'s
on rollover tests.

"I live in the northern suburbs of New York and I saw a lot
of S.U.V.'s on their backs like turtles," said Ralph
Schiavone, 46, a consultant who lives in Westchester
County, N.Y., explaining why he bought an Outback.

Tim Hurd, a spokesman for the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration, a branch of the Transportation
Department, said a vehicle either met the specific
technical requirements of being a light truck, or it did
not. "They aren't a judgment call," he said.

Added to the complexity of the system is the fact that
tailpipe emissions of pollutants are overseen by the
Environmental Protection Agency, which has classification
rules that do not match those of the Transportation
Department. The E.P.A., however, has said it will phase out
the distinction between cars and trucks this decade.

Congressional efforts to change fuel economy standards face
entrenched opposition from some members of both political
parties. But last month, the Bush administration proposed
an overhaul of fuel regulations for light trucks and an
altered definition to rein in classification problems.

Environmental groups and consumer advocates have generally
criticized the administration's proposals as potentially
making a complicated system even more prone to
manipulation, though they say aspects of the plan - in an
early, undetailed form - could be beneficial.
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