Sti MSRP (or markup) lists?
03-10-2003, 11:52 AM
#1
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Sti MSRP (or markup) lists?
I have seen this done on the EVO forum and would think that it would be a good idea to warn people about markups from dealers. (or dealer price adjustments) From what I seen, the markups on the EVO VIII are anywhere from 1K to 28K!!! I know that the Subaru dealers haven't started to sell the Sti yet, but once they start to sell, it would be nice to know which dealers are marking up the cars so that unsuspecting customers can avoid them.
My 0.02,
Tim
edit: A bit off topic from the Sti forum, but an example of what an off the wall markup is.
http://www.imbecilicracing.com/evo8/IMG_1006.JPG
My 0.02,
Tim
edit: A bit off topic from the Sti forum, but an example of what an off the wall markup is.
http://www.imbecilicracing.com/evo8/IMG_1006.JPG
Last edited by samurai; 03-10-2003 at 11:55 AM.
03-10-2003, 05:48 PM
#3
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That's disgusting, really. Those chaps over at Capitol Mitsu should be publicly hanged.
And that's my .02 worth =p
And that's my .02 worth =p
03-10-2003, 06:11 PM
#4
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What's so unsuspecting of a dealer charging big markups?!
Don't you think any normal person can look at the sticker and see how it compares to the purchase price?
If a dealer isn't offering you the price you want to pay don't buy it....that's the only way dealers will stop asking ridiculous markups. SOMEONE actually pays those prices otherwise the dealers wouldn't be doing it. I know most people on this list wouldn't but hey the dealer doesn't care who he sells it to, he is only concerned with getting the highest profit the market will bear.
I'm not trying to defend dealers because I hate most of them too. But if nobody buys the cars at the high prices they will be forced to lower the prices and eventually you will get the car at a price you think is fair.
Sorry for rambling.....I just don't understand why you would need a whole separate list to tell someone they're getting ripped off when all the info. they need is right on the sticker (or already on this website...lol).l
Don't you think any normal person can look at the sticker and see how it compares to the purchase price?
If a dealer isn't offering you the price you want to pay don't buy it....that's the only way dealers will stop asking ridiculous markups. SOMEONE actually pays those prices otherwise the dealers wouldn't be doing it. I know most people on this list wouldn't but hey the dealer doesn't care who he sells it to, he is only concerned with getting the highest profit the market will bear.
I'm not trying to defend dealers because I hate most of them too. But if nobody buys the cars at the high prices they will be forced to lower the prices and eventually you will get the car at a price you think is fair.
Sorry for rambling.....I just don't understand why you would need a whole separate list to tell someone they're getting ripped off when all the info. they need is right on the sticker (or already on this website...lol).l
03-11-2003, 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by LanceK
What's so unsuspecting of a dealer charging big markups?!
Don't you think any normal person can look at the sticker and see how it compares to the purchase price?
If a dealer isn't offering you the price you want to pay don't buy it....that's the only way dealers will stop asking ridiculous markups. SOMEONE actually pays those prices otherwise the dealers wouldn't be doing it. I know most people on this list wouldn't but hey the dealer doesn't care who he sells it to, he is only concerned with getting the highest profit the market will bear.
I'm not trying to defend dealers because I hate most of them too. But if nobody buys the cars at the high prices they will be forced to lower the prices and eventually you will get the car at a price you think is fair.
Sorry for rambling.....I just don't understand why you would need a whole separate list to tell someone they're getting ripped off when all the info. they need is right on the sticker (or already on this website...lol).l
What's so unsuspecting of a dealer charging big markups?!
Don't you think any normal person can look at the sticker and see how it compares to the purchase price?
If a dealer isn't offering you the price you want to pay don't buy it....that's the only way dealers will stop asking ridiculous markups. SOMEONE actually pays those prices otherwise the dealers wouldn't be doing it. I know most people on this list wouldn't but hey the dealer doesn't care who he sells it to, he is only concerned with getting the highest profit the market will bear.
I'm not trying to defend dealers because I hate most of them too. But if nobody buys the cars at the high prices they will be forced to lower the prices and eventually you will get the car at a price you think is fair.
Sorry for rambling.....I just don't understand why you would need a whole separate list to tell someone they're getting ripped off when all the info. they need is right on the sticker (or already on this website...lol).l
Tim
03-11-2003, 12:57 PM
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I've heard of people getting their EVO's for MSRP. I think with the EVO out already, Subaru dealers will realize that there is competition and sell at MSRP or maybe lower, but doubt it.
03-11-2003, 03:49 PM
#7
Subaru of Puyallup
From Subaru of Puyallup, Washington:
__________________________________________________
We are going to charge more than MSRP for the STI if you want to put a deposit knowing you will be paying the additional mark up let me know and we can get together. Alot of other dealerships say they are taking deposits for msrp but they have lists of 5-8 deep. Guess what, we will probably only see 2 or 3 per dealer, if that! So all those guys will not be getting a car for msrp or a car period. To bad for them, good for you.
Greg Stanger
Internet Manager
Cell 312-2342
__________________________________________________
From Eastside Subaru (Kirkland, WA)
__________________________________________________
Mark,
in respect to the STi, there are a few factors to be considered...first, the msrp will really not be in play here and will not have an effect as we will be marking the car up from the msrp a bit...there will be only 300 STi's built per month for the entire subaru sales industry, figure 600 subaru dealers nationwide and you understand why deposits will not be taken..we just dont know what we will be charging...in this respect, its not how much it costs, but who is going to step up to the plate and be the one to pay what is going to take to own it.. regards, kelly d.bader internet manager eastside subaru 425-260-2094
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
We are going to charge more than MSRP for the STI if you want to put a deposit knowing you will be paying the additional mark up let me know and we can get together. Alot of other dealerships say they are taking deposits for msrp but they have lists of 5-8 deep. Guess what, we will probably only see 2 or 3 per dealer, if that! So all those guys will not be getting a car for msrp or a car period. To bad for them, good for you.
Greg Stanger
Internet Manager
Cell 312-2342
__________________________________________________
From Eastside Subaru (Kirkland, WA)
__________________________________________________
Mark,
in respect to the STi, there are a few factors to be considered...first, the msrp will really not be in play here and will not have an effect as we will be marking the car up from the msrp a bit...there will be only 300 STi's built per month for the entire subaru sales industry, figure 600 subaru dealers nationwide and you understand why deposits will not be taken..we just dont know what we will be charging...in this respect, its not how much it costs, but who is going to step up to the plate and be the one to pay what is going to take to own it.. regards, kelly d.bader internet manager eastside subaru 425-260-2094
__________________________________________________
Last edited by markpaco; 04-15-2003 at 05:19 PM.
03-11-2003, 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by dsmperformance
I've heard of people getting their EVO's for MSRP. I think with the EVO out already, Subaru dealers will realize that there is competition and sell at MSRP or maybe lower, but doubt it.
I've heard of people getting their EVO's for MSRP. I think with the EVO out already, Subaru dealers will realize that there is competition and sell at MSRP or maybe lower, but doubt it.
Tim
03-11-2003, 09:38 PM
#9
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Same story here....$5k over invoice. But I'm not worried cause at these prices, I'm willing to wait. I know, I know...but I'm in no rush. As great as the STi is, I'm not willing to pay over MSRP. I hate paying MSRP too, but who knows....
03-12-2003, 05:59 AM
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dealer changes the sticker price ???
Originally posted by samurai
You have a point Lance. But, this type of list can also help people who have been offered visions of an Sti at MSRP then get screwed as the dealer changes the sticker price to their satisfaction (ie. mark the car up). This to me signals a dirty dealer (or dealership?)and should be announced so that other people don't get screwed. Think of it as a dirty dealer watchdog group.
Tim
You have a point Lance. But, this type of list can also help people who have been offered visions of an Sti at MSRP then get screwed as the dealer changes the sticker price to their satisfaction (ie. mark the car up). This to me signals a dirty dealer (or dealership?)and should be announced so that other people don't get screwed. Think of it as a dirty dealer watchdog group.
Tim
03-12-2003, 07:26 AM
#11
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MSRP = Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price.
It's only a starting point, dealer's can charge as much as they want.
Like I've said here before, I have 7 years experience in the industry as a factory rep and there are good and bad dealers. But it's pretty frustrating to hear people want something for nothing.
When you bought your first house did you look up what the prior owner paid (public knowledge) and offer the same price or a little over? And THEN ask him to fix everything wrong with the house?
I myself can't stand stand the fast talking and smoke and mirrors that some dealer personnell subscribe to, but the bottom line is if a product is in enough demand then the market (meaning the dealer AND the customer) determines the price. If the demand drops, the price drops and if you're patient you will eventually get a deal you feel comfortable with.
It's only a starting point, dealer's can charge as much as they want.
Like I've said here before, I have 7 years experience in the industry as a factory rep and there are good and bad dealers. But it's pretty frustrating to hear people want something for nothing.
When you bought your first house did you look up what the prior owner paid (public knowledge) and offer the same price or a little over? And THEN ask him to fix everything wrong with the house?
I myself can't stand stand the fast talking and smoke and mirrors that some dealer personnell subscribe to, but the bottom line is if a product is in enough demand then the market (meaning the dealer AND the customer) determines the price. If the demand drops, the price drops and if you're patient you will eventually get a deal you feel comfortable with.
03-12-2003, 08:20 AM
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That's all great, but my question was can a dealer remove the manufacturer supplied sticker?
03-12-2003, 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by LanceK
MSRP = Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price.
It's only a starting point, dealer's can charge as much as they want.
Like I've said here before, I have 7 years experience in the industry as a factory rep and there are good and bad dealers. But it's pretty frustrating to hear people want something for nothing.
When you bought your first house did you look up what the prior owner paid (public knowledge) and offer the same price or a little over? And THEN ask him to fix everything wrong with the house?
I myself can't stand stand the fast talking and smoke and mirrors that some dealer personnell subscribe to, but the bottom line is if a product is in enough demand then the market (meaning the dealer AND the customer) determines the price. If the demand drops, the price drops and if you're patient you will eventually get a deal you feel comfortable with.
MSRP = Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price.
It's only a starting point, dealer's can charge as much as they want.
Like I've said here before, I have 7 years experience in the industry as a factory rep and there are good and bad dealers. But it's pretty frustrating to hear people want something for nothing.
When you bought your first house did you look up what the prior owner paid (public knowledge) and offer the same price or a little over? And THEN ask him to fix everything wrong with the house?
I myself can't stand stand the fast talking and smoke and mirrors that some dealer personnell subscribe to, but the bottom line is if a product is in enough demand then the market (meaning the dealer AND the customer) determines the price. If the demand drops, the price drops and if you're patient you will eventually get a deal you feel comfortable with.
Its gonna be the most likely scenario for me that I'll be waiting for the next years allotment of Stis, but I'm still hopeful that I'll find a place that'll give me a good deal..
If you think I'm stingy, my dad wouldn't buy a 2002 Honda Odessey because the dealer charged 100$ over MSRP. Thats right.. $100
Tim
03-12-2003, 02:07 PM
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Rudy I believe you are correct. I don't think the dealer can remove the window sticker. From memory I think their are strict federal laws about this. You have federally mandated MPG estimates and the like. Pretty sure it's against the law.
In the case of adding items I believe they must add an additional sticker (often called an addendum). I don't know if this is required or not but most dealers do. In the case of additional markup on the car they usually state "market adjustment".
In the case of adding items I believe they must add an additional sticker (often called an addendum). I don't know if this is required or not but most dealers do. In the case of additional markup on the car they usually state "market adjustment".
03-12-2003, 02:42 PM
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Well what price SHOULD the car be then?
The price is whatever the maket bears period.
The fact that 32K is a lot of money has no relevance here.
The issue is what is a fair price for the Sti? What if Subaru had an MSRP of 60K and the dealer charged you 45K. Would the Subaru then be the bad guy because they suggested 60K?
Another scenario. You own a house you bought 5 years ago for 100K. You get it appraised for 200K and you put it on the market for 200K. The first day you get 5 phone calls offering you 300K. Do you sell it for 200K because that's what is is supposed to be?! Of course not you sell it for 300. Now, if you had the house on the market at 200K for 6 months and didn't get any phone calls you might adjust downward and list for 175K. That's the market dictating where the price should be. It has nothing to do with the seller being "dirty". Personally if I was a dealer I think the best place to sell in this situation would be MSRP. But my philosophy tends towards long term relationships and even if the cars started selling cheaper I think the average person would still feel MSRP was "fair" at the time considering the high demand and low supply. You will eventually get a car at the price you like but the tradeoff is that you will wait. Now in rare cases (Ferrai 360) the price continues to stay strong, you either pay the current market value or you don't get a car...simple.
Please don't take my comments as obnoxious or inflammatory, but I belong to some other car forums and this general feeling that dealers owe us a good deal is ridiculous. Do I like deep discounts on cars?...You bet I do!!! But I also understand business and I can't find the deal I either wait or bite the bullet and pay the going rate. I do believe all this animosity towards dealers is their own doing and maybe it's Karma's way of paying them back, but customers acting as ridiculous as the dealers is not going to help matters.
Ok I've beaten a dead horse. I truly hope you get your car because I think they're awesome...
The price is whatever the maket bears period.
The fact that 32K is a lot of money has no relevance here.
The issue is what is a fair price for the Sti? What if Subaru had an MSRP of 60K and the dealer charged you 45K. Would the Subaru then be the bad guy because they suggested 60K?
Another scenario. You own a house you bought 5 years ago for 100K. You get it appraised for 200K and you put it on the market for 200K. The first day you get 5 phone calls offering you 300K. Do you sell it for 200K because that's what is is supposed to be?! Of course not you sell it for 300. Now, if you had the house on the market at 200K for 6 months and didn't get any phone calls you might adjust downward and list for 175K. That's the market dictating where the price should be. It has nothing to do with the seller being "dirty". Personally if I was a dealer I think the best place to sell in this situation would be MSRP. But my philosophy tends towards long term relationships and even if the cars started selling cheaper I think the average person would still feel MSRP was "fair" at the time considering the high demand and low supply. You will eventually get a car at the price you like but the tradeoff is that you will wait. Now in rare cases (Ferrai 360) the price continues to stay strong, you either pay the current market value or you don't get a car...simple.
Please don't take my comments as obnoxious or inflammatory, but I belong to some other car forums and this general feeling that dealers owe us a good deal is ridiculous. Do I like deep discounts on cars?...You bet I do!!! But I also understand business and I can't find the deal I either wait or bite the bullet and pay the going rate. I do believe all this animosity towards dealers is their own doing and maybe it's Karma's way of paying them back, but customers acting as ridiculous as the dealers is not going to help matters.
Ok I've beaten a dead horse. I truly hope you get your car because I think they're awesome...