SuperMugen

SOULFLY: First off, BMW ended production of M-roadsters and M-coupes about a half year ago. My father bought one of the last M-roadsters in the U.S. for 52k out the door without any mark ups.

Joel Gat: Unfortunately MOST dealers don't see being nice or ethical like Subaru of Santa Cruz does. Most dealers are in it to make money, which I can't blame them for. I think the question that should be asked is, "How many dealers will be offering the Sti at MSRP without mark-up?" The answer to that is probably that, few and far between dealers will be offering the Sti at MSRP without mark-up. Just because Subaru of Santa Cruz and a couple of dealers will be offering the car without mark up, doesn't mean that everyone one will be able to get one for MSRP and no mark-up. If I remeber correctly the each dealership will get around 2-4 cars which isn't a lot compared to the estimated 4000 units for the first year of production. Sorry to spoil anyone's party.

n2o wild

ithink its more like frog eyes to me . but just my 2 cents.. and i like mine better too

malachi

The M Coupe is a very different car from the WRX. As an example, I would never get the M Coupe as it in no way fits my needs but would get the STi in a second as it perfectly fits my needs. The M Coupe is a great track car that is really impractical as a daily driver and simply should never be driven on bad pavement much less dirt or gravel. The STi is a great rally car that performs reasonably well on the track and is quite practical.

I live somewhere where a huge percentage of the roads are dirt and where rally driving is a common hobby. The nearest track is 4 hours away. Most of the paved roads are dead straight for long periods of time and heavily speed-trapped (and those that aren't are poorly paved).

For someone like me the choice is EVO or STi or build out a car. It's not a price comparison issue at all (there is a pain threshold for price, but that's it).

Hardly disaster then - no?

Drover

I guess I'd respond by jabbing on the accelerator and doing a 4-wheel pimpdrift around a nice sweeping corner. And if she still doesn't get it, I drop her off at the next corner and never call her again. Thankfully my wife enjoys wiping that stupid smile off high school Grand Am jockeys' faces as much as I do.

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Plus, as far as cost of ownership goes, think of the depreciation, WRX's have dropped more than the average in depreciation from what I have seen.

Not sure where you're looking. WRXs have held their resale value pretty well as far as I can tell.

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I don't think that there is any reason why the car shouldn't be 32k or below, it is a sub-compact !!!

Since when did the size of the car determine the price?

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Needless to say at 30-32k this car is one of the greatest deals around... let's hope that the insurance industry doesn't assign ridiculous rates.

Oh, don't worry about it. Insurance companies just love cheap 300 horsepower turbocharged cars. They won't charge absurd rates. Honest.

Drover

Well I don't want to turn this thread into a philosophy debate, so I'll only make this comment and I won't follow up on responses.

What you propose is a false dichotomy. There is nothing unethical about charging as much as you can for your product, any more than it is unethical for a buyer to pay as little for a product as they can. You meet somewhere in the middle and both walk away with what they want. As long as nobody lies or commits fraud, there is absolutely nothing unethical about it at all.

TomCtWRX

Joel Gat,
Must be nice to live in the part of California that you do, where they don't charge over the MSRP. Here in New England (Connecticut), we don't have the luxury of getting the STi at the wonderful price you are getting it at.

pfb

Umm, soulfy has some bad info, but you're info is equally bad.

1. You can walk into many Chevy dealers these days and get a new top-of-the-line corvette Z06 for about $46K, MSRP $52. Power of rebates and a slow economy. Thats 405 HP folks. A car that is a proven performance machine at countless SCCA solo and T1 race events across the country. If the STi could produce autocross or track times even close to a stock Z06, I would be wildly ecstatic. Base corvettes are thousands cheaper, easily under $45K.

2. M-coupes are no longer made. I've seen leftover '02's sell new for $41K. New they were only $45K loaded, only one option available, the sunroof. The Z4 is thought to be a better handling machine, although lower power and in many peoples opinion, ugly.

3. Kelly Blue Book is pretty much worthless for determining what a car might sell for. It is a tool used by dealers to show how much the overpriced used cars they are selling are worth and how little your trade in is worth. NADA is slightly better, but the only accurate info is auction data. WRX owners will take a beating on depreciation. so will most other performance car owners.

4. Why the need to diss Honda and Mistubishi? Both make some great products, and the Evo8 might very well be a hot ticket. Slightly less featured and lower power than the STi, but head and shoulders (IMHO) over the current WRX. The S2000 is another fantastic car (which I currently own...). Very different than a STi or WRX, but driving a great handling, front engined rear wheel drive, well powered, fantastic braking roadster on a nice day is an experience that is simply not duplicated by an understeering AWD 4-door. And stock to stock, or modified to modified, it will roast a WRX on the track. I don't think I'll give it up if/when I get an STi.

5. Yes, STi's will be marked up by some dealers. Yes, STi's will be available at MSRP by others. Yes, STi's will sell for closer to invoice, like all other subaru's, 6-9 months after introduction. I have a #1 slot contract at MSRP, in writing, refundable deposit. My biggest hesitation is buying it at MSRP or waiting till I can get it closer to invoice.

pfb

I hear you, but nobody thought that WRX's would sell for invoice 6 months after introduction either. And the US production volumes where way higher than originally forecast, because demand was high and Subaru increased supply, to meet demand.

IMHO Subaru gets it.

They make the same wether a vehicle is sold at invoice or $10,000 markup over MSRP. Evenutaully, even the dealers are happy if they have to sell a hot car like the STi even at/near there traditional invoice, because a halo car like the STi improves brand perception and keeps traffic into the showrooms to buy lesser Impreza's, Legacy's, Outback's, Forester's and Baja's.

Limited production serves no-one but snobs, a very few ultra-greedy dealers, and private speculators. Not Fuji Heavy Industries, not Subaru Japan, not Subaru North America, not the dealers, and most importantly, not the consumers.

My prediction stands. STi's at/near invoice within 9 months of introduction.