Motor/Trans Oil discussion
01-28-2003, 11:29 AM
#1
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Motor/Trans Oil discussion
Being an afficianado of Motor Oil, I created this thread to discuss what your opinions our on the brands of Motor/Trans Oil you use for your Roo, and why you like it. I always see questions on motor oil, and the discussion leads nowhere. I wouldn't call myself a motor oil expert, but I did take several chemistry classes in college that dealt in petro matters. I myself use Mobil 1 and regular trans oil for the trans. Why regular oil in the trans? Because I used Redline Synthetic and killed the syncho. Based on experience with my trans and Jason's (lethargicman) I am not using Redline in my trans again!
I really like synthetic because of it's non paraffinic qualities and it can be designed to do what motor oil is intended to do. Regular petro contains parrafin, and cannot be engineered to do a specific task, as the oil is not optimally designed or controlled in a lab. The cost factor shouldn't be an issue, as the cost of a synthetic oil change is the same as a fill up, and an oil change lasts 4ooo miles.
Anyways, below is an excerpt that I wrote for a short q and a in another forum that dealt with motor oil. Enjoy.
What does W in 5W/30 stand for and what's the difference between that and 10w/30?
The W in oil stands for Winter, not Weight. Basically the difference between oils are the following:
0w-30 - easy start up for really cold climates
5w-30 - easy start up and less wear and tear during start up in cold/normal climates
10w-30 - highest protection possible for the 30 weights with the highest flash points possible.
All of these oils weigh the same and have the same viscosity during normal use, however, during start up, the 0 winter oil will dramatically be better for start up than the 10 winter, as it is thinner during colder temps, however, the 10 W will be better for hotter heavier use as the polymers that make it 10 W make it less susceptible to a lower flashpoint.
So although it sounds confusing, and that they are both the same weight oils, but with different purposes, 0W being for easier start up and less wear and tear while thermal flash point is not a factor, and the other one, 10w is best for extreme desert LA environments where heat can pose a problem. I run 10W30 and it does its job along with 5w30. 0W30 is recommended for Northern type of climates, particularly Canada/Alaska.
What about the heavier weights? Like 20W/50?
Never put anything of that weight into your car unless you can get the oil hot enough and will be racing or driving in 100 plus heat towing (don't tow with your WRX) in the desert, because the thickness (viscosity) of 20W/50 oil will cause tons of wear on your engine. Use it for track days, racing, or during extended vigourous driving.
What's the new 5W/20 designation mean?
5 W 20 isn't designed for our engines as it is lower in viscosity and is designed for the newer Ford and Honda engines requiring this lower viscosity oil. Since our EJ20's are of an older design, the lower viscosity oil can present problems by bypassing the seals.
Val
Edit According to Ryan@IrvineSubaru, he states that you should use what SOA recommends for the Diff/Trans as stated in the owners manual. They use the following specification:
gl4 or 5
Valvoline trans oil.
Thanks to Ryan@Irvine Subaru for clearing up the whole trans oil mess!
I really like synthetic because of it's non paraffinic qualities and it can be designed to do what motor oil is intended to do. Regular petro contains parrafin, and cannot be engineered to do a specific task, as the oil is not optimally designed or controlled in a lab. The cost factor shouldn't be an issue, as the cost of a synthetic oil change is the same as a fill up, and an oil change lasts 4ooo miles.
Anyways, below is an excerpt that I wrote for a short q and a in another forum that dealt with motor oil. Enjoy.
What does W in 5W/30 stand for and what's the difference between that and 10w/30?
The W in oil stands for Winter, not Weight. Basically the difference between oils are the following:
0w-30 - easy start up for really cold climates
5w-30 - easy start up and less wear and tear during start up in cold/normal climates
10w-30 - highest protection possible for the 30 weights with the highest flash points possible.
All of these oils weigh the same and have the same viscosity during normal use, however, during start up, the 0 winter oil will dramatically be better for start up than the 10 winter, as it is thinner during colder temps, however, the 10 W will be better for hotter heavier use as the polymers that make it 10 W make it less susceptible to a lower flashpoint.
So although it sounds confusing, and that they are both the same weight oils, but with different purposes, 0W being for easier start up and less wear and tear while thermal flash point is not a factor, and the other one, 10w is best for extreme desert LA environments where heat can pose a problem. I run 10W30 and it does its job along with 5w30. 0W30 is recommended for Northern type of climates, particularly Canada/Alaska.
What about the heavier weights? Like 20W/50?
Never put anything of that weight into your car unless you can get the oil hot enough and will be racing or driving in 100 plus heat towing (don't tow with your WRX) in the desert, because the thickness (viscosity) of 20W/50 oil will cause tons of wear on your engine. Use it for track days, racing, or during extended vigourous driving.
What's the new 5W/20 designation mean?
5 W 20 isn't designed for our engines as it is lower in viscosity and is designed for the newer Ford and Honda engines requiring this lower viscosity oil. Since our EJ20's are of an older design, the lower viscosity oil can present problems by bypassing the seals.
Val
Edit According to Ryan@IrvineSubaru, he states that you should use what SOA recommends for the Diff/Trans as stated in the owners manual. They use the following specification:
gl4 or 5
Valvoline trans oil.
Thanks to Ryan@Irvine Subaru for clearing up the whole trans oil mess!
Last edited by Val; 02-04-2003 at 04:00 PM.
01-28-2003, 11:35 AM
#2
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Right....
I use 5w-30 for my impreza. The fact that there is an aftermarket turbo charger on their and my timing gets knocked back a lot. Using this kind of engine oil made the car turn over better rather than *omg* please start attitude.
Also as for Tranny oil, I just use the OE Subaru stuff.
FYI
Has never used synth in my car since I got it in jan 01.
I use 5w-30 for my impreza. The fact that there is an aftermarket turbo charger on their and my timing gets knocked back a lot. Using this kind of engine oil made the car turn over better rather than *omg* please start attitude.
Also as for Tranny oil, I just use the OE Subaru stuff.
FYI
Has never used synth in my car since I got it in jan 01.
01-28-2003, 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by LifePlaza
Right....
I use 5w-30 for my impreza. The fact that there is an aftermarket turbo charger on their and my timing gets knocked back a lot. Using this kind of engine oil made the car turn over better rather than *omg* please start attitude.
Also as for Tranny oil, I just use the OE Subaru stuff.
FYI
Has never used synth in my car since I got it in jan 01.
Right....
I use 5w-30 for my impreza. The fact that there is an aftermarket turbo charger on their and my timing gets knocked back a lot. Using this kind of engine oil made the car turn over better rather than *omg* please start attitude.
Also as for Tranny oil, I just use the OE Subaru stuff.
FYI
Has never used synth in my car since I got it in jan 01.
Why don't you? Synthetic oil is not a miracle cure all, but runs cleaner, has higher flashpoints, longer oil drain capability, and affords you protection should the car overheat or throw a belt because it has a higher flashpoint.
01-28-2003, 11:57 AM
#4
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Originally posted by Val
Why don't you? Synthetic oil is not a miracle cure all, but runs cleaner, has higher flashpoints, longer oil drain capability, and affords you protection should the car overheat or throw a belt because it has a higher flashpoint.
Why don't you? Synthetic oil is not a miracle cure all, but runs cleaner, has higher flashpoints, longer oil drain capability, and affords you protection should the car overheat or throw a belt because it has a higher flashpoint.
I'm just kidding. When I used to work at ISR and was a NOOB to the whole Suby thing, I asked why not just use Synth? After looking at it and working on it the breakdown is not that much different than using regular oil. It does have higher flash points, and it does last longer but since my car is turbo now, do the oil change at 2300 miles not a mile over.
01-28-2003, 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by LifePlaza
Sweet I'm sold, are you going to buy me some? I'll take 5 qts.
I'm just kidding. When I used to work at ISR and was a NOOB to the whole Suby thing, I asked why not just use Synth? After looking at it and working on it the breakdown is not that much different than using regular oil. It does have higher flash points, and it does last longer but since my car is turbo now, do the oil change at 2300 miles not a mile over.
Sweet I'm sold, are you going to buy me some? I'll take 5 qts.
I'm just kidding. When I used to work at ISR and was a NOOB to the whole Suby thing, I asked why not just use Synth? After looking at it and working on it the breakdown is not that much different than using regular oil. It does have higher flash points, and it does last longer but since my car is turbo now, do the oil change at 2300 miles not a mile over.
01-29-2003, 04:39 PM
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i just bought 4 quarts of mobil 1 gear oil, and now you are telling me it will destroy my synchros? are you sure it was the oil? are you sure you aren't shifting too fast and stripping the synchros? that's what most people do, and they blame it on all sorts of things.
i was going to put that gear oil in, but now i'm a little worried. i know other people have done it with no problems....is redline different from mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil? (i think it was 90 weight or something. i don't remember right now).
i was going to put that gear oil in, but now i'm a little worried. i know other people have done it with no problems....is redline different from mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil? (i think it was 90 weight or something. i don't remember right now).
01-30-2003, 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by eric m.
i just bought 4 quarts of mobil 1 gear oil, and now you are telling me it will destroy my synchros? are you sure it was the oil? are you sure you aren't shifting too fast and stripping the synchros? that's what most people do, and they blame it on all sorts of things.
i was going to put that gear oil in, but now i'm a little worried. i know other people have done it with no problems....is redline different from mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil? (i think it was 90 weight or something. i don't remember right now).
i just bought 4 quarts of mobil 1 gear oil, and now you are telling me it will destroy my synchros? are you sure it was the oil? are you sure you aren't shifting too fast and stripping the synchros? that's what most people do, and they blame it on all sorts of things.
i was going to put that gear oil in, but now i'm a little worried. i know other people have done it with no problems....is redline different from mobil 1 fully synthetic gear oil? (i think it was 90 weight or something. i don't remember right now).
I am not telling you that it will destroy your synchros, as I don't have experience with MOBIL1 synthetic gear lube.
quote:
Because I used Redline Synthetic and killed the syncho. Never use synthetic on a Subaru trans as it needs friction to engage properly!
Maybe I should have reworded it to never use Redline in the gearbox. The reason why I say this is out of experience. Ask Jason (lethargicman) about his experience with Redline in the gearbox, and he'll tell you the same. He had to get 4th warrantied. Anyways, from what other users have been told by the dealerships on the other forum is that Subaru Trans needs the friction modifiers not available in Synthetic to make their trans work. Ask Jeff (Tifosi77) what he thinks about synlube in the gear box, as he is a nut about lubes too. I am a good driver, and know how to drive and shift unlike that slob onederer!
Val
Last edited by Val; 01-30-2003 at 11:10 AM.
01-31-2003, 03:31 PM
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well i was just assuming that redline synthetic is similar to mobil 1 synthetic gear oil.
i have heard about people having problems with redline and royal purple gear oils, but not mobil 1.
how often do you guys change your gear oil?
and another question: would a short shifter like a kartboy, along with hardened shifter bushings and an sti tranny mount cause any kind of extra strain on the gears? i know that i have a much harder time shifting than i did when my car was stock, and sometimes i can't get into 1st gear unless i go into 2nd then back into 1st gear. i'm not a noob, and i don't think anything is broken, so i guess this is normal for all the hardened stuff i installed, right?
on the other hand, when i go to drive my girlfriend's wrx, the shifter feels like it's made of rubber, while mine feels like a go-kart or something. if that's normal, cool. if not, what could be wrong?
i have heard about people having problems with redline and royal purple gear oils, but not mobil 1.
how often do you guys change your gear oil?
and another question: would a short shifter like a kartboy, along with hardened shifter bushings and an sti tranny mount cause any kind of extra strain on the gears? i know that i have a much harder time shifting than i did when my car was stock, and sometimes i can't get into 1st gear unless i go into 2nd then back into 1st gear. i'm not a noob, and i don't think anything is broken, so i guess this is normal for all the hardened stuff i installed, right?
on the other hand, when i go to drive my girlfriend's wrx, the shifter feels like it's made of rubber, while mine feels like a go-kart or something. if that's normal, cool. if not, what could be wrong?
02-04-2003, 10:00 AM
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Good article
I was reading the latest Auto World magazine and they had a really good interview with a motorsports product manager from Mobil.
One of the questions asked was if the oil being sold to consumers was the same exact oil used in racing. His response was a yes and no. Yes to that the same oil 15W50 was used in Helio Castroneves 3.5 liter 12000RPM engine where he won at Fontana, but no to the higher tech cars such as Formula1 which run on a different type of fuel, nitromethane.
He also stated that the new Mobil1 with Supersyn has been used exclusively for 8 years on the track before they released it to the public, meaning that years and years of testing was conducted before it was found to be ideal. Imagine if Supersyn has been in existence for over 8 years, imagine what they have now? One of the statements that got me convinced to use Mobil products exclusively is that they test and race on the track. Track testing is your best testing ground for high performance products in my opinion.
Val
One of the questions asked was if the oil being sold to consumers was the same exact oil used in racing. His response was a yes and no. Yes to that the same oil 15W50 was used in Helio Castroneves 3.5 liter 12000RPM engine where he won at Fontana, but no to the higher tech cars such as Formula1 which run on a different type of fuel, nitromethane.
He also stated that the new Mobil1 with Supersyn has been used exclusively for 8 years on the track before they released it to the public, meaning that years and years of testing was conducted before it was found to be ideal. Imagine if Supersyn has been in existence for over 8 years, imagine what they have now? One of the statements that got me convinced to use Mobil products exclusively is that they test and race on the track. Track testing is your best testing ground for high performance products in my opinion.
Val
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