garrett turbos
03-02-2010, 01:32 PM
#16
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Your ignorance is ASTONISHING. You know for a fact that I have no background in said fields? Tell me Paul, how many years of education do you have under your belt? What degrees do you posses? Licenses? Certificates? Anything more than a BAR number? Any ******* can open up a shop, buy expensive equipment, pay insurance on it all, buy a business license then charge astronomical prices for "quality assured" work while others can do the SAME EXACT work for a fraction of the cost. That's what's happening here: a bunch of people were getting paid a lot of money to produce a quality product. Now the company switched to a group of other people that charge a fraction of the cost. Company hasn't crumbled yet, and is not hurt in any way yet, and we'll see how they do in the future. But SO FAR nothing has suffered besides this guy venting online. No one even knows for a FACT if its true or not.
You will never understand.
Ignorance at its best.
"everyone else is just not as good as us"
AMERICA,
**** YEAH!!
Before this gig, I worked in a heavy manufacturing plant
You are probably highly educated, with many advanced degrees, honors, and awards.
Given my low level of education, I think I understand your analogy:
I'm Garret AiResearch, making a quality product and you are GarretChina/Mexico/??? that is attempting to do the same, but at a lower price.
Lower price, because Garret Foreign doesn't have to pay the same wage.
Or benefits.
Or state/federal regulations.
Etc.
I think I get what you're saying.
But, I'm just a mechanic.
Last edited by FW Motorsports; 03-02-2010 at 01:37 PM.
03-02-2010, 01:40 PM
#17
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It's just not a widget that most discerning folks would like to buy.
03-02-2010, 05:02 PM
#20
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Regardless of the reasons they are doing it and appearing to take it seriously and thoroughly. It just seems that way too many product recalls have been done hush hush and swept under the rug as quickly as possible with little coverage or follow up information. During the Firestone/Ford Exploder recalls, the tire executives continuously denied problems and downplayed the significance of the failure as much as possible. All they wanted to do is read a recall statement at a joint briefing without answering any questions and get it over with. And there was plenty of media and government pressure there as well.
03-03-2010, 07:52 PM
#21
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Your ignorance is ASTONISHING. You know for a fact that I have no background in said fields? Tell me Paul, how many years of education do you have under your belt? What degrees do you posses? Licenses? Certificates? Anything more than a BAR number? Any ******* can open up a shop, buy expensive equipment, pay insurance on it all, buy a business license then charge astronomical prices for "quality assured" work while others can do the SAME EXACT work for a fraction of the cost. That's what's happening here: a bunch of people were getting paid a lot of money to produce a quality product. Now the company switched to a group of other people that charge a fraction of the cost. Company hasn't crumbled yet, and is not hurt in any way yet, and we'll see how they do in the future. But SO FAR nothing has suffered besides this guy venting online. No one even knows for a FACT if its true or not.
You will never understand.
Ignorance at its best.
"everyone else is just not as good as us"
AMERICA,
**** YEAH!!
Also, you DO know nothing about manufacturing / quality control. outsourcing to china and india are generally a VERY bad idea. spend some time in a manufacturing / industrial environment and you will quickly see that just because two products are made to an identical specification does not mean they will be the same.
my company used to outsource to india, china, even germany. we've actually insourced a LOT of our work, either at our own facility or local suppliers / machine shops. cost has gone up marginally on our materials, but rejections due to poor quality are significantly reduced. in the end, spending a little more up front pays big dividends in the finished product.
03-04-2010, 10:27 AM
#22
The thing is though: is there substantial evidence of Garrett turbo's failing more frequently now than before? Is there PROOF that quality has dropped significantly?
The OP is saying that they started outsorcing back when? 1998!!!
So by now, 2010, if they were making complete crap and quality control was out the window don't you think we would have heard about it a bit earlier than over 10 years later?
All I'm saying is that there is no HARD PROOF of any of this as of yet, and if there is please show me.
Outsourcing isn't bad as long as the final product is just as good or better. If its not then there's a problem. It DEFINITELY isn't always inferior.
The attitude: " WE ARE THE BEST AND NO ONE DARES COMPARE TO US" just makes me laugh.
In the end you and Paul can argue til you're blue in the face but the fact remains: every large company is outsourcing or starting to outsource to other countries, its good for business and profit, and quality on said products is getting better every year...
The OP is saying that they started outsorcing back when? 1998!!!
So by now, 2010, if they were making complete crap and quality control was out the window don't you think we would have heard about it a bit earlier than over 10 years later?
All I'm saying is that there is no HARD PROOF of any of this as of yet, and if there is please show me.
Outsourcing isn't bad as long as the final product is just as good or better. If its not then there's a problem. It DEFINITELY isn't always inferior.
The attitude: " WE ARE THE BEST AND NO ONE DARES COMPARE TO US" just makes me laugh.
In the end you and Paul can argue til you're blue in the face but the fact remains: every large company is outsourcing or starting to outsource to other countries, its good for business and profit, and quality on said products is getting better every year...
Last edited by Vladi; 03-04-2010 at 10:38 AM.
03-04-2010, 11:07 AM
#23
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03-04-2010, 12:12 PM
#24
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The thing is though: is there substantial evidence of Garrett turbo's failing more frequently now than before? Is there PROOF that quality has dropped significantly?
The OP is saying that they started outsorcing back when? 1998!!!
So by now, 2010, if they were making complete crap and quality control was out the window don't you think we would have heard about it a bit earlier than over 10 years later?
All I'm saying is that there is no HARD PROOF of any of this as of yet, and if there is please show me.
Outsourcing isn't bad as long as the final product is just as good or better. If its not then there's a problem. It DEFINITELY isn't always inferior.
The attitude: " WE ARE THE BEST AND NO ONE DARES COMPARE TO US" just makes me laugh.
In the end you and Paul can argue til you're blue in the face but the fact remains: every large company is outsourcing or starting to outsource to other countries, its good for business and profit, and quality on said products is getting better every year...
The OP is saying that they started outsorcing back when? 1998!!!
So by now, 2010, if they were making complete crap and quality control was out the window don't you think we would have heard about it a bit earlier than over 10 years later?
All I'm saying is that there is no HARD PROOF of any of this as of yet, and if there is please show me.
Outsourcing isn't bad as long as the final product is just as good or better. If its not then there's a problem. It DEFINITELY isn't always inferior.
The attitude: " WE ARE THE BEST AND NO ONE DARES COMPARE TO US" just makes me laugh.
In the end you and Paul can argue til you're blue in the face but the fact remains: every large company is outsourcing or starting to outsource to other countries, its good for business and profit, and quality on said products is getting better every year...
In fact, I doubt you can define the word "quality"....w/o looking it up.
Your side of the argument is more unbelievable, as its all based on subjective rhetoric; the interwebs hasn't mentioned mass failures of widget X, so failures must not be happening.
Professional Publications, of which there are too many to numerate here, offer evidence that your argument doesn't hold water.
Graco makes a very nice auto-retracting hose reel that costs ~$300.
It is completely made in the USA.
They will last a lifetime.
Harbor Freight sells a Made in China knock off for a fraction of the cost...and it won't last a year.
Vladi, you can argue until you are blue in the face, but the fact remains that if manufacturing jobs continue to be exported, our local economy will suffer.
03-04-2010, 01:13 PM
#25
I never said local economy won't suffer. And dont try to change the subject here: I said that there is no proof of Garrett goind down the drain, just like there is no proof that their quality is just as good as before.
So neither one of us has REAL PROOF of any of this. What I'm saying is that despite how long you try to beat the dead horse: outsourcing will only get bigger/more popular. It is cheaper and ultimately puts more money into the big wigs pockets, AND WHILE the quality of MOST products made overseas is USUALLY not as good, it is getting better yearly. They're coming up with ways to IMPROVE quality while still keeping costs down.
Oh and nice try with "quality" definition. I won't take the bait, but nice try
So neither one of us has REAL PROOF of any of this. What I'm saying is that despite how long you try to beat the dead horse: outsourcing will only get bigger/more popular. It is cheaper and ultimately puts more money into the big wigs pockets, AND WHILE the quality of MOST products made overseas is USUALLY not as good, it is getting better yearly. They're coming up with ways to IMPROVE quality while still keeping costs down.
Oh and nice try with "quality" definition. I won't take the bait, but nice try
Last edited by Vladi; 03-04-2010 at 01:16 PM.
03-04-2010, 01:32 PM
#26
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I never said local economy won't suffer. And dont try to change the subject here: I said that there is no proof of Garrett goind down the drain, just like there is no proof that their quality is just as good as before.
So neither one of us has REAL PROOF of any of this. What I'm saying is that despite how long you try to beat the dead horse: outsourcing will only get bigger/more popular. It is cheaper and ultimately puts more money into the big wigs pockets, AND WHILE the quality of MOST products made overseas is USUALLY not as good, it is getting better yearly. They're coming up with ways to IMPROVE quality while still keeping costs down.
Oh and nice try with "quality" definition. I won't take the bait, but nice try
So neither one of us has REAL PROOF of any of this. What I'm saying is that despite how long you try to beat the dead horse: outsourcing will only get bigger/more popular. It is cheaper and ultimately puts more money into the big wigs pockets, AND WHILE the quality of MOST products made overseas is USUALLY not as good, it is getting better yearly. They're coming up with ways to IMPROVE quality while still keeping costs down.
Oh and nice try with "quality" definition. I won't take the bait, but nice try
i just wanted to post this quote for hilarity, my modification is in bold:
I love how you always jump into every thread and run your mouth like a little punk when you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of this and have ZERO knowledge or information about the topic at hand. You go after Paul like a hyena picking apart the spelling/grammar of every single one of his posts, throw around snide remarks implying he is shady/uneducated and just keep talking utter bull**** for no reason. You are neither helping anyone nor funny.
I'm sure you think you're smart and we're all idiots. I get that. I'm sure you probably think you "owned" us on the internetz.
I'm really saddened by how utterly ignorant and bitter you are. If I was another tuner I'd be embarrassed to have you "defending" me on a forum.
This is the last time I will ever reply to you in this thread.
PS: feel free to pick apart my post and talk more **** in efforts to "redeem yourself". Have fun
I'm sure you think you're smart and we're all idiots. I get that. I'm sure you probably think you "owned" us on the internetz.
I'm really saddened by how utterly ignorant and bitter you are. If I was another tuner I'd be embarrassed to have you "defending" me on a forum.
This is the last time I will ever reply to you in this thread.
PS: feel free to pick apart my post and talk more **** in efforts to "redeem yourself". Have fun
03-04-2010, 01:59 PM
#27
I have worked with many people over the years that have held advanced degrees that couldn't take a simple principal and apply them in the field. I personally prefer working with a capable person who has less education and more real world experience. Education does not guarantee competence.
03-04-2010, 02:09 PM
#28
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I have worked with many people over the years that have held advanced degrees that couldn't take a simple principal and apply them in the field. I personally prefer working with a capable person who has less education and more real world experience. Education does not guarantee competence.
