Anyone have Dynamat on their car?
09-28-2006, 01:53 PM
#16
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Originally Posted by illusion
Sure using a vibration dampener will cut down the the sound in some part, but doing vibration dampener, then a sound filter, then a sound barrier is insane. People were amazed when they got to ride in my accord. It was dead, not even the slightest hint of an echo, you couldn't even hear the faintest whine of the supercharger during normal driving and there was zero road noise. The whole car sounded like it had ever surface carpeted. To show how much noise it really cut down it was easiest to compare from the outside. I have an official DbDrag scorecard rating me at 151.3db yet with the doors closed it really was all that loud outside. You'd have no idea how much noise was really happening on the inside until you opened the doors, then your ears would start ringing.
I recently did a friends Z06 with minimal vibration dampener, but lots of ensolite and barrier and it was amazing how much it cut down on the cabin noise, at a relatively minimal weigh impact, maybe 35lbs. (mostly only used the dampener on the firewall to cut down on the low frequencies coming from the motor)
Its all a tradeoff. If you want the best interior sound with the least exterior intrusion, your best bet is to line your car with concrete. Since most of us don't like 10klb cars, a butyl with a filter and barrier on top of it is as close as you can get.
Different materials handle different frequencies...umm differently. While asphalt/butyl mats do offer some higher frequency attenuation, they let quite a bit of it through, but stop low frequencies quite well. Closed cell foams work great at filtering high frequencies, but don't do so well with low. Combine them and you catch most of the noise there is, then add a barrier to reflect the noise that does get through.
I recently did a friends Z06 with minimal vibration dampener, but lots of ensolite and barrier and it was amazing how much it cut down on the cabin noise, at a relatively minimal weigh impact, maybe 35lbs. (mostly only used the dampener on the firewall to cut down on the low frequencies coming from the motor)
Its all a tradeoff. If you want the best interior sound with the least exterior intrusion, your best bet is to line your car with concrete. Since most of us don't like 10klb cars, a butyl with a filter and barrier on top of it is as close as you can get.
Different materials handle different frequencies...umm differently. While asphalt/butyl mats do offer some higher frequency attenuation, they let quite a bit of it through, but stop low frequencies quite well. Closed cell foams work great at filtering high frequencies, but don't do so well with low. Combine them and you catch most of the noise there is, then add a barrier to reflect the noise that does get through.
09-28-2006, 01:59 PM
#17
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 793
Car Info: '09 accord, '14 2 seater chevy
It will help tons. I've only done the firewall so far on the wrx, and the difference is nuts. The more I modded, the more I detested the sound of my motor during normal driving(with a PE1820 and a few other goodies right now) and the firewall bit made a marked difference. The next victim of the noise killer is the tranny tunnel, then the rear shock towers(bat part of a wagon is the shock towers are in the cabin, so road noise is transmitted pretty bad), then for the most part I think I'll be content.
09-28-2006, 02:12 PM
#18
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Originally Posted by illusion
It will help tons. I've only done the firewall so far on the wrx, and the difference is nuts. The more I modded, the more I detested the sound of my motor during normal driving(with a PE1820 and a few other goodies right now) and the firewall bit made a marked difference. The next victim of the noise killer is the tranny tunnel, then the rear shock towers(bat part of a wagon is the shock towers are in the cabin, so road noise is transmitted pretty bad), then for the most part I think I'll be content.
09-28-2006, 02:27 PM
#19
Yeah, You've Probably Never Heard Of Me.
iTrader: (21)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: in a glass case of emotion.
Posts: 17,962
Car Info: 345/30/19s
Originally Posted by illusion
Sure using a vibration dampener will cut down the the sound in some part, but doing vibration dampener, then a sound filter, then a sound barrier is insane. People were amazed when they got to ride in my accord. It was dead, not even the slightest hint of an echo, you couldn't even hear the faintest whine of the supercharger during normal driving and there was zero road noise. The whole car sounded like it had every surface carpeted. To show how much noise it really cut down it was easiest to compare from the outside. I have an official DbDrag scorecard rating me at 151.3db yet with the doors closed it really wasn't all that loud outside, I could make more noise from the stock stereo with the windows down in my WRX. You'd have no idea how much noise was really happening on the inside until you opened the doors, then your ears would start bleeding.
I recently did a friends Z06 with minimal vibration dampener, but lots of ensolite and barrier and it was amazing how much it cut down on the cabin noise, at a relatively minimal weigh impact, maybe 35lbs. (mostly only used the dampener on the firewall to cut down on the low frequencies coming from the motor)
Its all a tradeoff. If you want the best interior sound with the least exterior intrusion, your best bet is to line your car with concrete. Since most of us don't like 10klb cars, a butyl with a filter and barrier on top of it is as close as you can get.
Different materials handle different frequencies...umm differently. While asphalt/butyl mats do offer some higher frequency attenuation, they let quite a bit of it through, but stop low frequencies quite well. Closed cell foams work great at filtering high frequencies, but don't do so well with low. Combine them and you catch most of the noise there is, then add a barrier to reflect the noise that does get through.
as a background. I competed in the IASCA for about 7 years(SQ of course, a few years in pro 301-600 and a few in pro 601+), and tried my hand Db for about 2 years.
I recently did a friends Z06 with minimal vibration dampener, but lots of ensolite and barrier and it was amazing how much it cut down on the cabin noise, at a relatively minimal weigh impact, maybe 35lbs. (mostly only used the dampener on the firewall to cut down on the low frequencies coming from the motor)
Its all a tradeoff. If you want the best interior sound with the least exterior intrusion, your best bet is to line your car with concrete. Since most of us don't like 10klb cars, a butyl with a filter and barrier on top of it is as close as you can get.
Different materials handle different frequencies...umm differently. While asphalt/butyl mats do offer some higher frequency attenuation, they let quite a bit of it through, but stop low frequencies quite well. Closed cell foams work great at filtering high frequencies, but don't do so well with low. Combine them and you catch most of the noise there is, then add a barrier to reflect the noise that does get through.
as a background. I competed in the IASCA for about 7 years(SQ of course, a few years in pro 301-600 and a few in pro 601+), and tried my hand Db for about 2 years.
damn, how do you know so much about this stuff!
is this all for car stereo stuff?
09-28-2006, 02:35 PM
#20
Originally Posted by illusion
Its all a tradeoff. If you want the best interior sound with the least exterior intrusion, your best bet is to line your car with concrete. Since most of us don't like 10klb cars, a butyl with a filter and barrier on top of it is as close as you can get.
mid 90s. a magazine called CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS had a car that had a dual chamber sub enclosure made out of concrete. it was on the cover and while it made NO SENSE other than "hey i have a concrete enclosure"... lol...
09-28-2006, 02:38 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: East Bay Area
Posts: 1,769
Car Info: WREX
I don't on the subie, but did on my old mazda - makes a world of difference!
I would also like to see it on some of the cars on the road - yeah, you know which ones - the ones where the trunk is shaking to sh**, license plate is rattling, and it sounds like crap!
Only takes a little bit of foam velcro to stop the plate from shaking, and a little dynamat to make the car sound much better....
I would also like to see it on some of the cars on the road - yeah, you know which ones - the ones where the trunk is shaking to sh**, license plate is rattling, and it sounds like crap!
Only takes a little bit of foam velcro to stop the plate from shaking, and a little dynamat to make the car sound much better....
09-28-2006, 04:34 PM
#22
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 793
Car Info: '09 accord, '14 2 seater chevy
Originally Posted by Krinkov
damn, how do you know so much about this stuff!
is this all for car stereo stuff?
is this all for car stereo stuff?
I put myself through school installing at a very high end shop in CT. We actually staffed an audio engineer(with his masters in some obscure audio art). The guy was a god when it came to any sort of audio and I learned quite a bit from him. I also learned quite a bit when I was competing, the first few years I wasn't even close to the top 3 in a show unless there were less than 3 people entered in my class
A lot of it was trial and error. Like I said, I'm no guru, but I have my fair share of mobile audio knowledge.
09-28-2006, 04:50 PM
#23
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 793
Car Info: '09 accord, '14 2 seater chevy
Originally Posted by ldivinag
mid 90s. a magazine called CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS had a car that had a dual chamber sub enclosure made out of concrete. it was on the cover and while it made NO SENSE other than "hey i have a concrete enclosure"... lol...
Yeah, a concrete enclosure wouldn't make a lot of sense because a lot of the competition vehicles actually use the enclosure itself to pick up a dB here or there. I've personally laid over a ton of concrete in the floorboard of a dodge minivan to get the rigidity up. The shop I worked at was doing a competition van. 3" thick lexan windows, 1/2" steel plate walls and ceiling, the concrete floor, and 20 12" kickers solobaric SD12s(the old rounds ones). I left before it was done, but by design it should have been around 165dB which isn't loud, that's small animal mutilation, ear bone shattering, heat attack causing loud.
09-29-2006, 10:37 AM
#24
Registered User
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose/ San Leandro
Posts: 3,300
Car Info: SGM 135i
i think if u want to stop your trunk from rattling, stuffing the empty spaces in your trunk lid with cotton does the job. It's gonna be hard getting it out tho, but whose gonna know?
09-29-2006, 02:31 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kapolei, HI
Posts: 347
Car Info: 2001 2.5RS Sedan
Hey.. I have a question as I'm completely lost in this field. Does raammat and ensolite work the same way? I'm not sure if I understand how sound-deadening differs from sound absorbtion.
Originally Posted by DLUX WRX
yeah, ive done the floor, front and rear doors, trunk, trunk lid, inside the rear fenders..
it hasn't done much of anything for road noise, but my audio system sounds alot better than before.
i just ordered some Ensolite from Rick at RAAmmat with is susposed to kill the road noise down alot. Dynamat and other products like it are designed to dampen any resonance a panel might have. Ensolite and other closed cell foams are what actually help stop noise form coming into the cabin. if you're interested in getting stuff like dynamat i'd go with the Raammat that Rick offers. 60 sq feet is about 120. that should be enough for your doors, trunk and some floor. if you get two rolls it should cover the whole car and then some. add some ensolite on top of the raammat and the car should be really quiet. i bought 3 packs of dynamat extreme for about 120/bulk pack (36 sq feet). the stuff usually costs 180-200/bulk pack. if i had known about raammat i would have gone with that instead as you can see its ALOT cheaper.
if you have any questions feel free to send me a PM
btw.. as far as weight goes..
a 60 sq foot fool of ricks raammat weights about 27 lbs. i ordred two rolls of his mat and 6 yards of the ensolite and the whole package was about 58 lbs.
it hasn't done much of anything for road noise, but my audio system sounds alot better than before.
i just ordered some Ensolite from Rick at RAAmmat with is susposed to kill the road noise down alot. Dynamat and other products like it are designed to dampen any resonance a panel might have. Ensolite and other closed cell foams are what actually help stop noise form coming into the cabin. if you're interested in getting stuff like dynamat i'd go with the Raammat that Rick offers. 60 sq feet is about 120. that should be enough for your doors, trunk and some floor. if you get two rolls it should cover the whole car and then some. add some ensolite on top of the raammat and the car should be really quiet. i bought 3 packs of dynamat extreme for about 120/bulk pack (36 sq feet). the stuff usually costs 180-200/bulk pack. if i had known about raammat i would have gone with that instead as you can see its ALOT cheaper.
if you have any questions feel free to send me a PM
btw.. as far as weight goes..
a 60 sq foot fool of ricks raammat weights about 27 lbs. i ordred two rolls of his mat and 6 yards of the ensolite and the whole package was about 58 lbs.
09-29-2006, 05:44 PM
#26
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Jose CA
Posts: 793
Car Info: '09 accord, '14 2 seater chevy
Originally Posted by aznsexrboy808
Hey.. I have a question as I'm completely lost in this field. Does raammat and ensolite work the same way? I'm not sure if I understand how sound-deadening differs from sound absorbtion.
raammat/brownbread/dynomat/etc are either butyl or asphalt based vibration dampeners usually with a decoupling layer(the aluminum backing). It's primary purpose is to reduce vibration by absorption. The butyl turns the vibration into heat, the metal layer is used to bounce the remaining noise/vibration back through the material to give it another shot at reducing the levels. The problem with butyl/asphalt is that it only marginally attenuates higher frequencies. It does indeed calm them a little, as previously mentioned, it does a much better job of handling lower frequencies and resonance in the panels.
Ensolite is a very dense closed cell foam. It acts like a filter with each cell/chamber cutting the sound a little more. Ensolite works great at attacking high frequencies but only does marginal with mid frequencies and only so-so with low frequencies. If you've ever been in a studio the walls have closed cell foam with abstract angles to absorb and disperse the sound. The ridges and angles give the closed cell it's extra defense against midbass and bass. If it weren't so ugly I'd have studio pads all over in my car
The final piece, the outer decoupling layer, is usually a thick dense vinyl that reflects the sound back into the foam and vibration dampener.
A good read
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?p=ps
a very good read on dampeners(doesn't get into filter and decoupling layers though)
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
09-30-2006, 09:05 AM
#28
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Originally Posted by Jakes02
stick a roll of newspaper behind your license plate. stops the plate from rattling
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
strider327
Bay Area
11
10-14-2010 03:27 PM
gpatmac
Hawaii
2
04-17-2003 10:37 AM
stealth-wrx
Suspension, Handling, and Brakes
16
12-14-2002 10:32 PM
