Subaru BRZ Concept
11-20-2011, 09:48 PM
#2
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I can actually see that on your lift danny alongside your fastback stang. lol.. I would like to see the car get tested at the Sugo track in japan but Im sure subaru did a really great job engineering the structural integrity of the car.
11-20-2011, 09:54 PM
#3
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I have to rebuild the stang...got T boned on 13 turns by a noob going downhill...was going uphill to work...so that will be a first on the agenda....
heres a short vid clip
Subaru BRZ Concept! 2011 LA Auto Show - YouTube
heres a short vid clip
Subaru BRZ Concept! 2011 LA Auto Show - YouTube
Last edited by houdni; 11-20-2011 at 10:00 PM.
11-20-2011, 10:00 PM
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My thoughts are that I've been following this car for two years, religiously for the past year (and yes, i have no life), and have all but committed to trying to buy one. I'm still on the fence between the Scion (Toyota) and Subaru. At first it looked like the Subaru would be the more "high-performance" one of the two, but now I'm reading that the only thing separating the two will be looks and trim. Cost is a factor because there are rumblings saying that the Scion will be cheaper, but I'm beginning to think they'll probably be priced the same too.
At any rate, we get to find out what they both (the Subaru and Toyota) look like in less than two weeks when the production versions make their *official debuts* at the Tokyo Motor Show.
But if you don't want to wait....
That's the leaked production Toyota version. We'll get a look at the Subaru in two weeks.
*In before the "no turbo" "too underpowered" "no awd" comments*
At any rate, we get to find out what they both (the Subaru and Toyota) look like in less than two weeks when the production versions make their *official debuts* at the Tokyo Motor Show.
But if you don't want to wait....
That's the leaked production Toyota version. We'll get a look at the Subaru in two weeks.
*In before the "no turbo" "too underpowered" "no awd" comments*
11-20-2011, 10:52 PM
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It would be interesting to see how much differently the car handles with the engine mounted so low and rearward in the chassis.
I've heard of some motor placement play in the drift scene and circuit s2k's, but all with major mods and $$ involved.
Looks like the BRZ will turn out to be a very fun car though.
I've heard of some motor placement play in the drift scene and circuit s2k's, but all with major mods and $$ involved.
Looks like the BRZ will turn out to be a very fun car though.
11-20-2011, 11:14 PM
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It would be interesting to see how much differently the car handles with the engine mounted so low and rearward in the chassis.
I've heard of some motor placement play in the drift scene and circuit s2k's, but all with major mods and $$ involved.
Looks like the BRZ will turn out to be a very fun car though.
I've heard of some motor placement play in the drift scene and circuit s2k's, but all with major mods and $$ involved.
Looks like the BRZ will turn out to be a very fun car though.
12-01-2011, 10:27 AM
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86 Under the Skin: Technical details on the Toyota/Subaru/Scion, 86/GT-86/FR-S/BRZ
Over the last 87 weeks, the slow, agnozing reveal of the Toyota FT-86 (show car)/Toyota 86 (JDM production model)/Toyota GT 86 (Europe)/Scion FR-S (U.S.)/Subaru BRZ (everywhere) has been dribbling a Chinese water torture of information on us. Today's drop, the official U.S. unveiling of the Scion FR-S version, revealed almost no new information. The only true surprise was the fact that we don't have to order the trick 86 boxer badge (above) from Japan. The FR-S will wear the badge even here.
We did get closer to the car than ever before, though, and we've learned a few things about the innards over the last few days, so here's the full MotoIQ brain dump:
First of all, it's the right size. Just a hair bigger than a Miata, but with more space inside. So stop comparing it to that behemoth from Hyundai!
Second, it's reasonably close to the right weight. Japanese versions are supposedly 2689 pounds, but the Japanese tend to weigh their cars dry, offer more stripped-to-the-bone versions (like no stereo, no A/C), and have lighter bumpers and door beams. All indications are that U.S. models will be about 100 pounds heavier.
Third, it was developed with the right attitude. Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada was quoted saying
“There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars.
It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.”
Do yourself a favor and go read the rest of that story at The Truth About Cars. We'll still be here when you're done...
Under the hood we know some interesting things.
1: There is no engine cover. You can see the engine when you open the hood! This Tada guy obviously gets it.
2: The engine is a unique mish-mash of Subaru and Toyota technology. The bottom (middle?) end is supposedly based on the new FB20, but the square 86 x 86mm bore and stroke (the standard FB is undersquare) calls that little factoid into question. When Toyota wants to make horsepower, they pick up their red phone and call Yamaha. Yamaha did the 2ZZGE head, the 3SGTE head, and if you go back far enough, they even did the engine in the 2000GT. Word is Yamaha is responsble for the heads on this one too.
Toyota's bizzarely complex but very effective direct and port injection system is in place, with fuel delivery split between two parallel sets of injectors, one in the intake ports and one in the cylinders.
Those Yamaha heads and direct injection are apparently pretty damn knock resistant. Compression is 12.5:1
You already know this, but just for the record, Scion is saying 200 hp at 7000 rpm, 151 lb-ft of torque at 6600 rpm, and redline is 7400 rpm. Those numbers are all very slightly different than we've seen before, but are close enough not to matter.
Other things we can tell from this picture of the engine bay:
The big hose teeing off the intake looks like it's piping sound to the interior. This is a relatively common thing these days. When the intake is placed way up in cold-air land forward of the radiator, the only way to get good intake honkus sounds to the guy making the payments is to pipe the sound in through a membrane (kinda like a rugged speaker cone with no driver) that lets sound pass through without letting unfiltered air slip by. Miatas use these, Mustangs use these, and they're quite common in Europe where drive-by noise regulations make it nearly impossible for a car to sound good without one.
The lack of a power steering pump indicates electric power steering. The fact that it's nearly 2012 also indicates electric power steering. Hope it doesn't suck.
There will never be an all-wheel-drive version. Never.
How can we tell? The front diff needs to be roughly in line with the front wheel centerline, and with a Subaru layout, the front diff sits behind the clutch. In this car, the middle of the engine sits on the front wheel centerline. The engine would have to move forward nearly a foot to make all-wheel drive possible, and that's just not going to happen.
And that's fine with us. The weight distribution is already 53/47. We don't need it any more front heavy.
We were planning to bring you fresh information on the exhaust manifold layout (will the primaries be paired Subaru-style for that off-beat sound, or will they be properly paired for good breathing?) and subframe clearance for future turbo models, but this undercover foiled that plan. At least the car will be slippery.
Over the last 87 weeks, the slow, agnozing reveal of the Toyota FT-86 (show car)/Toyota 86 (JDM production model)/Toyota GT 86 (Europe)/Scion FR-S (U.S.)/Subaru BRZ (everywhere) has been dribbling a Chinese water torture of information on us. Today's drop, the official U.S. unveiling of the Scion FR-S version, revealed almost no new information. The only true surprise was the fact that we don't have to order the trick 86 boxer badge (above) from Japan. The FR-S will wear the badge even here.
We did get closer to the car than ever before, though, and we've learned a few things about the innards over the last few days, so here's the full MotoIQ brain dump:
First of all, it's the right size. Just a hair bigger than a Miata, but with more space inside. So stop comparing it to that behemoth from Hyundai!
Second, it's reasonably close to the right weight. Japanese versions are supposedly 2689 pounds, but the Japanese tend to weigh their cars dry, offer more stripped-to-the-bone versions (like no stereo, no A/C), and have lighter bumpers and door beams. All indications are that U.S. models will be about 100 pounds heavier.
Third, it was developed with the right attitude. Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada was quoted saying
“There is a Toyota standard for designing new cars. This standard was to a large extent ignored. Why did we do this? There are cars that are accepted by a lot of people. Practical cars that are easy to drive and that do not break easily. These are standard Toyota cars. The 86 is not a car like that. We had to change our design approach for this car. We may have to do this again for other cars.
It is impossible to develop a sports car that appeals to everybody. If you try to please everybody, the car would be half-baked for everybody, and not particularly good for anybody. This car is not developed by a committee, or by consensus.”
Do yourself a favor and go read the rest of that story at The Truth About Cars. We'll still be here when you're done...
Under the hood we know some interesting things.
1: There is no engine cover. You can see the engine when you open the hood! This Tada guy obviously gets it.
2: The engine is a unique mish-mash of Subaru and Toyota technology. The bottom (middle?) end is supposedly based on the new FB20, but the square 86 x 86mm bore and stroke (the standard FB is undersquare) calls that little factoid into question. When Toyota wants to make horsepower, they pick up their red phone and call Yamaha. Yamaha did the 2ZZGE head, the 3SGTE head, and if you go back far enough, they even did the engine in the 2000GT. Word is Yamaha is responsble for the heads on this one too.
Toyota's bizzarely complex but very effective direct and port injection system is in place, with fuel delivery split between two parallel sets of injectors, one in the intake ports and one in the cylinders.
Those Yamaha heads and direct injection are apparently pretty damn knock resistant. Compression is 12.5:1
You already know this, but just for the record, Scion is saying 200 hp at 7000 rpm, 151 lb-ft of torque at 6600 rpm, and redline is 7400 rpm. Those numbers are all very slightly different than we've seen before, but are close enough not to matter.
Other things we can tell from this picture of the engine bay:
The big hose teeing off the intake looks like it's piping sound to the interior. This is a relatively common thing these days. When the intake is placed way up in cold-air land forward of the radiator, the only way to get good intake honkus sounds to the guy making the payments is to pipe the sound in through a membrane (kinda like a rugged speaker cone with no driver) that lets sound pass through without letting unfiltered air slip by. Miatas use these, Mustangs use these, and they're quite common in Europe where drive-by noise regulations make it nearly impossible for a car to sound good without one.
The lack of a power steering pump indicates electric power steering. The fact that it's nearly 2012 also indicates electric power steering. Hope it doesn't suck.
There will never be an all-wheel-drive version. Never.
How can we tell? The front diff needs to be roughly in line with the front wheel centerline, and with a Subaru layout, the front diff sits behind the clutch. In this car, the middle of the engine sits on the front wheel centerline. The engine would have to move forward nearly a foot to make all-wheel drive possible, and that's just not going to happen.
And that's fine with us. The weight distribution is already 53/47. We don't need it any more front heavy.
We were planning to bring you fresh information on the exhaust manifold layout (will the primaries be paired Subaru-style for that off-beat sound, or will they be properly paired for good breathing?) and subframe clearance for future turbo models, but this undercover foiled that plan. At least the car will be slippery.
12-01-2011, 11:51 AM
#10
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[QUOTE=houdni;3172786]
There will never be an all-wheel-drive version. Never.
How can we tell? The front diff needs to be roughly in line with the front wheel centerline, and with a Subaru layout, the front diff sits behind the clutch. In this car, the middle of the engine sits on the front wheel centerline. The engine would have to move forward nearly a foot to make all-wheel drive possible, and that's just not going to happen.
Best news that I've seen about this design yet. I'm so glad they didn't compromise the car design simply to make an awd option... I'm happy that after all these years of speculation, they've finally confirmed it as a rwd only platform.
There will never be an all-wheel-drive version. Never.
How can we tell? The front diff needs to be roughly in line with the front wheel centerline, and with a Subaru layout, the front diff sits behind the clutch. In this car, the middle of the engine sits on the front wheel centerline. The engine would have to move forward nearly a foot to make all-wheel drive possible, and that's just not going to happen.
Best news that I've seen about this design yet. I'm so glad they didn't compromise the car design simply to make an awd option... I'm happy that after all these years of speculation, they've finally confirmed it as a rwd only platform.
12-08-2011, 03:08 PM
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i didn't read back through the other posts but I saw this on Nabisco, thought I'd share for any of you looking into getting one of these.
2013 Subaru BRZ
not a bad article. Gave some sad news to the engine and components for sure.
2013 Subaru BRZ
not a bad article. Gave some sad news to the engine and components for sure.
Last edited by sigterm; 12-08-2011 at 03:10 PM.
12-08-2011, 03:24 PM
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i didn't read back through the other posts but I saw this on Nabisco, thought I'd share for any of you looking into getting one of these.
2013 Subaru BRZ
not a bad article. Gave some sad news to the engine and components for sure.
2013 Subaru BRZ
not a bad article. Gave some sad news to the engine and components for sure.
12-08-2011, 03:40 PM
#13
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ah, to me, I just thought it would be more than it is. Subaru's numbers are 200 horsepower and 150 pound-feet. I know its very light 2500+lbs, but... I just thought it would be more for its debut. Seems a little low to me is all.
12-08-2011, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Automobile
For all the Internet armchair warriors complaining about the meager power output, let us be the first to say: the BRZ doesn’t need a turbo. It doesn’t WANT a turbo. And anyone who says the car should have a turbo is missing the point.
Last edited by touge-n00b; 12-08-2011 at 05:29 PM.
