Pat, here's what I-speed says about modifiying stock injectors
04-15-2004, 08:27 PM
#1
Big Baller
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Pat, here's what I-speed says about modifiying stock injectors
The Good
This is a great idea and glad someone tested them out as such. These will flow up to 700+ cc's of fuel and work well under WOT and full boost conditions.
Cheap alternative to new higher flowing injectors
Could work OK, as a drag car only.
The Bad:
Cutting off the cover is the incorrect way of creating more flow on the injectors. This will create more flow but it will also cause the injectors to not mix well with the air. Think of it this way, you have a garden hose with a sprayer on the end of it. When you turn the water fully open, there is enough pressure to cause the water to seperate into rain drops. Now when the sprayer is removed the water does not spray anymore, instead it is more like a stream. This is the same things with the cut covers on the injectors. So the car will not run well with these conditions, even though it is getting the correct amount of fuel, the fuel doe snot mix well.
As the fuel does not mix well, you will be not burning as much fuel as you will want. From this, your gas milage will drop drastically and lean conditions could start occuring under idle and cruising conditions.
The proper way of creating more flow:
Either buy injectors designed for the application you are looking for.
If you really want the WRX Injectors to work, we would recommend drilling the holes out as everyone else has done. Though the holes need to be quite small in the area of about .5 mm. Then have them benched flowed and make sure they are all within 10% of each other.
Lastly we suggest to not run the injectors higher then 650cc's as anything higher will cause the injectors to start dripping as there will not be enough back pressure from the cover to keep them from dripping.
This is a great idea and glad someone tested them out as such. These will flow up to 700+ cc's of fuel and work well under WOT and full boost conditions.
Cheap alternative to new higher flowing injectors
Could work OK, as a drag car only.
The Bad:
Cutting off the cover is the incorrect way of creating more flow on the injectors. This will create more flow but it will also cause the injectors to not mix well with the air. Think of it this way, you have a garden hose with a sprayer on the end of it. When you turn the water fully open, there is enough pressure to cause the water to seperate into rain drops. Now when the sprayer is removed the water does not spray anymore, instead it is more like a stream. This is the same things with the cut covers on the injectors. So the car will not run well with these conditions, even though it is getting the correct amount of fuel, the fuel doe snot mix well.
As the fuel does not mix well, you will be not burning as much fuel as you will want. From this, your gas milage will drop drastically and lean conditions could start occuring under idle and cruising conditions.
The proper way of creating more flow:
Either buy injectors designed for the application you are looking for.
If you really want the WRX Injectors to work, we would recommend drilling the holes out as everyone else has done. Though the holes need to be quite small in the area of about .5 mm. Then have them benched flowed and make sure they are all within 10% of each other.
Lastly we suggest to not run the injectors higher then 650cc's as anything higher will cause the injectors to start dripping as there will not be enough back pressure from the cover to keep them from dripping.
04-15-2004, 08:47 PM
#2
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I saw somewhere (maybe nabisco) that someone sent a set of modified stock injectors to RC Engineering for balancing and flow testing. The results were very good and the spray pattern was also reported as being good. I'll try to find a link.
04-15-2004, 09:05 PM
#4
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You guys are so yesterday. No I mean it. It's Friday here.
Seriously, this is an issue that I was trying to fight for a while. The trick for me was to really fine tune my trims. That made world of difference, that and the latest injector scaling I've got.
Can't wait to get back and play some more.
Seriously, this is an issue that I was trying to fight for a while. The trick for me was to really fine tune my trims. That made world of difference, that and the latest injector scaling I've got.
Can't wait to get back and play some more.
04-15-2004, 09:46 PM
#8
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it's friggin cold
winter blends of gas foam a lot....
Not a very big scene out here (imports)
1/4mi track is 1hr10min away
lotsa beer
shouldn't have let the wife come back<------- big mistake
Only 3 white subarus in the whole club.
only turbocharged RS in our club
winter blends of gas foam a lot....
Not a very big scene out here (imports)
1/4mi track is 1hr10min away
lotsa beer
shouldn't have let the wife come back<------- big mistake
Only 3 white subarus in the whole club.
only turbocharged RS in our club
Last edited by ImprezaRSX; 04-15-2004 at 09:49 PM.
04-15-2004, 10:01 PM
#10
Big Baller
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Car Info: 93 BG5, 00&01 GM6, 06LGT, 07STi
C-west rear spats don't fit for shtit.
Still no IC
Only working 5 hours days is cool.
911 operators are nice when you're cryin' like a 12 yr old girl because your wife flipped out and assaulted you.
My friends couch is pretty comfy, which is why he always sleeps there and I get stuck with the Lazy Boy.
My rear diff is toast- On decel it roars, on accel it whines like I'm in reverse.
So is my center diff- front wheels spin for about 3 seconds before rears start getting power.
So are my synchros--- NOTCHY
SO is my clutch- goose it in any gear and it lets go.
Biggest lesson:
Turbo kit's cost money. But not as much money as the aftermath!
But do I learn? SHTIT NO. I can't wait to spend more. Luckily for me I have access to a 99 RS parts car.
Still no IC
Only working 5 hours days is cool.
911 operators are nice when you're cryin' like a 12 yr old girl because your wife flipped out and assaulted you.
My friends couch is pretty comfy, which is why he always sleeps there and I get stuck with the Lazy Boy.
My rear diff is toast- On decel it roars, on accel it whines like I'm in reverse.
So is my center diff- front wheels spin for about 3 seconds before rears start getting power.
So are my synchros--- NOTCHY
SO is my clutch- goose it in any gear and it lets go.
Biggest lesson:
Turbo kit's cost money. But not as much money as the aftermath!
But do I learn? SHTIT NO. I can't wait to spend more. Luckily for me I have access to a 99 RS parts car.
04-16-2004, 06:25 AM
#11
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Your awesome, Dom. Seriously. I thought I had it bad for my car but I now know that my hobby is child's play. You're seriously devoted.
I don't know how much 800s cost but even with my comment and Skywalker's comments above, I'm still sold on the hacked blue stockers. I haven't figured them out completely but I know there's a way to make them work like I want them to. If not, I'll try getting another set and taking a drill to them.
I don't know how much 800s cost but even with my comment and Skywalker's comments above, I'm still sold on the hacked blue stockers. I haven't figured them out completely but I know there's a way to make them work like I want them to. If not, I'll try getting another set and taking a drill to them.
04-16-2004, 07:39 AM
#12
Big Baller
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I personally think the drill idea is the best one.
It's so much more fun to modify something and use it. It's like your own creation.... you know, like my car. It's most definitely my creation. 98% of all the work done to it was done by my friends and I. Only mechanic to ever touch it was Ed -when I went to sea- and he replaced my head.
I think another good idea would be to get the tumble generator replacement piece that has an extra set of fuel injector bosses in it. That would be sweet. Get a set of blue stockers (370cc???) and some STi pinks (565cc??) wire them in parallel (and a small resistor in series) and tell the computer you have 935cc injectors (370+565) Then you get a good spray pattern no matter what rpm and you have all the flow you need. Put the big ones on top and the little one's on bottom so the bigs have more time to mix with the air. or get two sets of stocks (740cc) or two sets of STi (1130cc's)
Of course, now we're talking about a serious project. But it'd be pretty freakin' sweet. Your own creation.
It's so much more fun to modify something and use it. It's like your own creation.... you know, like my car. It's most definitely my creation. 98% of all the work done to it was done by my friends and I. Only mechanic to ever touch it was Ed -when I went to sea- and he replaced my head.
I think another good idea would be to get the tumble generator replacement piece that has an extra set of fuel injector bosses in it. That would be sweet. Get a set of blue stockers (370cc???) and some STi pinks (565cc??) wire them in parallel (and a small resistor in series) and tell the computer you have 935cc injectors (370+565) Then you get a good spray pattern no matter what rpm and you have all the flow you need. Put the big ones on top and the little one's on bottom so the bigs have more time to mix with the air. or get two sets of stocks (740cc) or two sets of STi (1130cc's)
Of course, now we're talking about a serious project. But it'd be pretty freakin' sweet. Your own creation.
04-20-2004, 07:10 PM
#15
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Posts: n/a
Here is the latest update we posted on I-Speed
Hello Everyone,
I would like to thank Kingpin and big adventure for the great info on the higher flowing injectors. I was skeptical of the whole idea, because of the atomization with the air. So we proceeded with our own tests. We had three sets test flowed through RC Eng and then we installed them on our cars for testing (including the RS-WRX running 12.447), with some EcuTeK tuning. After 1.5 months of testing here is what we found out.
We wanted to make sure that these injectors would hold up to the challenge of day to day driving, track use, different octane levels, drag racing, and stop and go traffic. After putting on thousands of miles, watching the Wideband O2 readings, under idle, cruising and WOT throttle here are reactions.
1. Under idle, we had one car with little rough idle and just raised the idle to 850 to solve that problem. The other two idle fine at 700 rpm's. The O2 readings are fine as the front Wideband O2 adjusts accordingly, of course this is after some Injector Tuning.
2. Cruising conditions, we tested this out also and noticed the Wideband O2 readings to be a little lean, we were worried, so we took a closer look, and noticed a lot has to do with your throttle position, angle of the road, etc... So we found the flatest road we could and back and forth we went. To find out they are very close to Stoich, a tad high but this could be due to Wideband O2 placement, on the downpipe.
3. Under WOT, these injectors as everyone says work well. They get the fuel in, and can run hella rich if you want all day long. We also tested the injectors on the dyno, and got some good readings from the Wideband O2 on the exhuast, the downpipe, and the uppipe.
4. We tried different octane levels and a one time tune on 91 octane (or whatever is around) of the injectors is all that is needed. Once that is done, retune the fuel maps, timing maps, etc... and you have a killer setup.
Do we recommend them? We would like to see at least a few more tested before we would recommend them safe to use. As there might have been something we missed in our testing.
Cheers,
Bill Knose
I-Speed USA
Hello Everyone,
I would like to thank Kingpin and big adventure for the great info on the higher flowing injectors. I was skeptical of the whole idea, because of the atomization with the air. So we proceeded with our own tests. We had three sets test flowed through RC Eng and then we installed them on our cars for testing (including the RS-WRX running 12.447), with some EcuTeK tuning. After 1.5 months of testing here is what we found out.
We wanted to make sure that these injectors would hold up to the challenge of day to day driving, track use, different octane levels, drag racing, and stop and go traffic. After putting on thousands of miles, watching the Wideband O2 readings, under idle, cruising and WOT throttle here are reactions.
1. Under idle, we had one car with little rough idle and just raised the idle to 850 to solve that problem. The other two idle fine at 700 rpm's. The O2 readings are fine as the front Wideband O2 adjusts accordingly, of course this is after some Injector Tuning.
2. Cruising conditions, we tested this out also and noticed the Wideband O2 readings to be a little lean, we were worried, so we took a closer look, and noticed a lot has to do with your throttle position, angle of the road, etc... So we found the flatest road we could and back and forth we went. To find out they are very close to Stoich, a tad high but this could be due to Wideband O2 placement, on the downpipe.
3. Under WOT, these injectors as everyone says work well. They get the fuel in, and can run hella rich if you want all day long. We also tested the injectors on the dyno, and got some good readings from the Wideband O2 on the exhuast, the downpipe, and the uppipe.
4. We tried different octane levels and a one time tune on 91 octane (or whatever is around) of the injectors is all that is needed. Once that is done, retune the fuel maps, timing maps, etc... and you have a killer setup.
Do we recommend them? We would like to see at least a few more tested before we would recommend them safe to use. As there might have been something we missed in our testing.
Cheers,
Bill Knose
I-Speed USA