New Ford Taurus SHO runs 12s w/only ecu tweaks
10-09-2009, 04:32 PM
#18
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To those who haven't been to a ford dealership lately, things are improving.
Albeit slowly, but they got subaru beat on the interior hands down.
10-09-2009, 04:35 PM
#19
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Agreed as well.
The WRX should be stock at 300hp and the STi should be stock at 350-375hp at this point. I find it kind of sad that Subaru engines have stayed pretty much static as far as the technology other than small / non-revolutionary improvements (WRX with bigger turbo and new tune).
Why can't Suby step to the plate with a new engine design (Mazda and Mitsu) or at least modify the boxer with direct injection or valve controlled intakes (rather than throttle plate type)? Crap, even if they just added E85 compatibility to our cars (with a higher HP tune) I would be happy.
The only big powertrain develoments in the last few years have been:
1. The current Flat-6 in the Legacy, Outback and Tribeca...the thing runs on 87 and gets about the same power as the old one...that's good but not great considering the EJ257 generates more power in a smaller package.
2. CVT Tranny...good for the N/A engine and great MPG.
3. Develoment of a 2.0 Flat-4 Turbo-Diesel...which may or may not come to the U.S.
Correct me if I'm wrong but those are the only big changes I have seen.
The WRX should be stock at 300hp and the STi should be stock at 350-375hp at this point. I find it kind of sad that Subaru engines have stayed pretty much static as far as the technology other than small / non-revolutionary improvements (WRX with bigger turbo and new tune).
Why can't Suby step to the plate with a new engine design (Mazda and Mitsu) or at least modify the boxer with direct injection or valve controlled intakes (rather than throttle plate type)? Crap, even if they just added E85 compatibility to our cars (with a higher HP tune) I would be happy.
The only big powertrain develoments in the last few years have been:
1. The current Flat-6 in the Legacy, Outback and Tribeca...the thing runs on 87 and gets about the same power as the old one...that's good but not great considering the EJ257 generates more power in a smaller package.
2. CVT Tranny...good for the N/A engine and great MPG.
3. Develoment of a 2.0 Flat-4 Turbo-Diesel...which may or may not come to the U.S.
Correct me if I'm wrong but those are the only big changes I have seen.
Man, you live pretty close to the heartland of 'merican cars. Detroit. Must be a lot of prideful domestic car people 'round there.
10-09-2009, 06:01 PM
#20
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The previous gen Mustang is a prime example. That car had a rubbish interior, and it felt like the steering rack was a mile long, and connected to the wheels with toothpicks. The 2010 just feels so much better to drive, tighter and smaller. And the interior is quite an improvement over the old one. Ford makes better interiors then GM thats for sure, and dont get me started on Chrysler.
I'm interested to "get my hands" on a 2010 Taurus. I've read a lot of good things. As for the SHO, from what I've read, while it may be fast, it may be a tad to soft for my tastes. I still maintain that BMWs have the best driving feel bar-none this side of a Miata.
10-10-2009, 02:22 AM
#25
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i'm not hating on Ford as i used to work for them some time ago (no, not in a dealership), and i've driven a lot of their cars including volvo's and mazda's. i honestly think that they are heading to the right direction. and besides, i give them credit for not taking the bailout money from the government recently.
just my .02.
10-10-2009, 02:42 AM
#26
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hey easy now. subaru built the sti for a balance in power, handling and reliability. it is also one of the best platforms that you can buy out there. why is it necessary for subaru to "compete" with these other manufacturers that are building twin turbo cars for example? what do they have to prove if they are to increase the horsepower to the nth level (you know they can)? there won't be fun in tuning if subaru built a 400whp car. and that's where the enthusiasts and aftermarket parts come in. i honestly will not buy the SHO over the sti.
Just look at the Germans, they've been in a HP war for years now, and their flagship performance sedans are putting out over 500hp (I'm not saying the STI is in competition with these cars, just giving an example of why companies bump the power).
10-10-2009, 02:59 AM
#27
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Good points, but you have to realize that the majority of people that are looking into buying performance oriented cars are not into modifying and tuning. The majority of the market are guys who want a fast car right out of the box. So while there may be no fun in tuning a 400hp STI, it will entice many other people to buy the car, thus broadening the market. And we know Subaru is just trying to dip into a bigger market. And IMO, Subaru is easily capable of bumping the STI to over 400hp while keeping the handling balance in check. But keeping the cost around 30K, that's another story. However, if the EVO bumps it's power up in the future...
Just look at the Germans, they've been in a HP war for years now, and their flagship performance sedans are putting out over 500hp (I'm not saying the STI is in competition with these cars, just giving an example of why companies bump the power).
Just look at the Germans, they've been in a HP war for years now, and their flagship performance sedans are putting out over 500hp (I'm not saying the STI is in competition with these cars, just giving an example of why companies bump the power).
oh well, i'll let ken block explain that to them. maybe he can invite them all in a gymkhana event one day...
10-10-2009, 03:01 AM
#28
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You can't compare Subaru's direction with Ford's. Ford's popularity overseas is enormous and I'm happy they are bringing that direction over to the US.
Subaru has two niches: the grown-up tuner generation and the dependability with practicality crowd. The reason they aren't changing is because they have those two corners dominated. Subaru's popularity in regions where AWD is very useful, ie. snowy winters, shows them that they don't really need to drastically change. The only thing I'd be extremely happy with if Subaru redoes it's H6 to bring the it to EJ2X's reliability and durability then work on a coupe. The Impreza WRX STI was a poor man's M3, they could do even better if they made a "poor man's" 911 Turbo.
Let's compare that with Toyota. They are bland since they dropped the Supra. Too caught up with the Prius and the Scion side, they totally neglected the performance market. Celica, Supra, MR2? You get my point. They need to do better than the subpar IS-F.
Then you have Ford. They have nothing to lose. They need to change or they will be gone like the other domestics. Even though they are doing well in Europe and Australia, the US is their lifeblood.
Subaru has two niches: the grown-up tuner generation and the dependability with practicality crowd. The reason they aren't changing is because they have those two corners dominated. Subaru's popularity in regions where AWD is very useful, ie. snowy winters, shows them that they don't really need to drastically change. The only thing I'd be extremely happy with if Subaru redoes it's H6 to bring the it to EJ2X's reliability and durability then work on a coupe. The Impreza WRX STI was a poor man's M3, they could do even better if they made a "poor man's" 911 Turbo.
Let's compare that with Toyota. They are bland since they dropped the Supra. Too caught up with the Prius and the Scion side, they totally neglected the performance market. Celica, Supra, MR2? You get my point. They need to do better than the subpar IS-F.
Then you have Ford. They have nothing to lose. They need to change or they will be gone like the other domestics. Even though they are doing well in Europe and Australia, the US is their lifeblood.
10-10-2009, 02:48 PM
#30
I have had nothing but problems with my Subaru, brothers Subaru, amd my Prelude, and the 4runner.