dub81

iTrader: (39)

Hey Guys & Gals,

Well I was part of the 5 that attended the SORT meet at the Temp Raceway Park..Ok from my understanding is that the Temp Raceway Park sits on a land that strecthes 50 acres..Also they also stated that this Temp. track will house each motorsport activity like Drifting, drag, dirt/oval and SCCA will each have their own designated track course..From the rough draft diagram that they shown, their are four seperate course..Now the members of the SORT crew receive info and suggestions from the drifters, 400km's, dirt riders on their needs for the course but no one from the SCCA group has not contacted the SORT groups.So I know I havent AUTO X and I know a few members here that do and they need your feedbacks and suggestion on how you want to build your courses..So what one of tthe lady(who works with Todd K. Apo) suggested is get all the AUTO Xers together and brainstorm on the design of our desired course.. So what do you AUTO Xers suggest?? Also in order for this to even take place, we all need to support councilmen Todd K.Apo, suade the votes as he is the only one for the the tracks and the rest are against anything to do with "RACING".. So the ratio as of is one against the rest.So we need to "blow up" or get their phones rigging "OFF THE HOOK", write a letter, or email them to let them know we are dead serious about the track.. Also to get this going we need 6 out of the 9 votes from the councimembers... So I included the paper that lists the councilmembers in the area that you live in..And plus too, Spread the word.. IMO, I miss the tracks and cruising in the Pit area!!:RockOn - not mine:


P.S. if anyone know if I left any other importan info out, please can you guys add to it...

Thanks for your time
walter



For more info:http://www.racesafehawaii.com/page/page/4772543.htm

Risk3233

Auto-xers only need a large, flat, paved area - like a parking lot.

It shouldn't have any raised curbing or hard objects (i.e. light poles) on the track surface.

kolohe_04sti

iTrader: (20)

great feedback walter...now, where's my spam mailer???...j/k....

dub81

iTrader: (39)

Thanks!!! Sorry no spam mailer but i get SPAM...LOL

kolohe_04sti

iTrader: (20)

seriously though, the only way that we can move forward on this and see its realization is to spread the word and start calling/emailing the list of councilmen. "racers" are being targeted on the streets, but are not given any venue for a controlled environment. we shouldn't just sit on the sidelines and let someone else do the job, because we too are affected somehow. let them hear what we have to say...just my .02.

bpang1

iTrader: (25)

So now it is only SORT involved in getting a track for Oahu?

I dunno but if its the same people from when SORT was against anyone supporting the original track idea...I would say that they've burned too many bridges to succeed. Now, I don't know any of them personally but I do know that they've treated a lot of us that have no affiliation to the prior track owner very abusively.

If however, some of the more sane and adult people have jumped into leading SORT than I think it has a chance.

Anyways, yep Auto-X mostly needs a big flat piece of asphalt and another area to park/work on the cars. Would be nice if an office or some kind of shelter was in the "paddock" area so they could use it for registration and sitting in.

iNfEk

iTrader: (33)

thats great that their attempting to reuse the existing track but the old track is to far gone and needs to much maintenance to get it to the conditions that is required to have a reliable track. If we're going to reuse the track then they need to put together a maintenance contract so that the track is maintained and there is no possibility of it going back to the way it was when it closed down. further, HRP's "go kart" area as it's depicted on the picture posted was where Auto-X, Track days...etc. were held, this would be fine for Auto-X events but the entire "track" would have to be repaved and it would be great if there were grass instead of coral rocks, bushes and not miniature trees that don't have leaves on them (also known as over grown weeds), get rid of the ugly *** mosquito infested tires.

They could also for auto-x course area just make one since that entire area needs to be redone anyway.

Jon

91sleeper

iTrader: (13)

they are planning on building an entirely new track so from what i understand he old track is dead. what they want is for the scca guys input on things like course design, course material(ie. asphalt or concrete), and generaly anything else so that they can make a section just for scca. now it all sounded good but if thats the case then i think curtis and amy are smart enough ppl to have made contact. the fact that nobody has bothered leads me to believe that they see something that we don't. i'll ask curtis and amy at the next event and get their thoughts but so far they have been everything we could have asked for and i will go with what they think. if they decide to stay at the stadium then i'm fine with it. keep in mind that this is a few years off at best and so we will be at the stadium for a while. just my $0.02. oh and who's got some dirt tires for sale? $100!? sold!!

Cynt

iTrader: (1)

honestly I was hoping they just drop napalm on the whole area, and just run rally cross...

It just smelled fishy... SCCA is the largest grassroots motor sports org in the USA and SORT diden't make an effort to get in contact with them? seemed like a bunch of rednecks wanting a circle dirt track, 1/8 strip and just kept whacking the drift stick around...

I don't think auto-x was EVEN brought up just "scca" tossed around, even when that is the ONLY autosports happening on island.

Was not in any way instilled with confidence in SORT, and i was REALLY hopeing that after the whole juicy mess that there would be something.



That being said, i will be sure to contact my rep. I think that getting the old track condemned, may be a step in the right direction, but really we need a fully new facility, regardless of location.


I do hope the thing works out at the temp facility, but still fishy.

91sleeper

iTrader: (13)

+100000000 for rally-x! maybe they will let us use he land till they build the 1/8 mile track. i'd luv me some rally action!!

ArchangelX

I'd like to say this...I think that alot of people should take a bit of time, to really look into the matters at hand...and what drives them. It's not black & white, and you really have to have a really good sense of the overall picture. This is going to be a really long post, but please bare with me. Most of you know that I've been in this fight for a long time. And for the past two years, I have spent my entire retirement talking to city, state, and official representatives in the effort to get us a track.

First, I didn't attend the meeting tonight, but I've got a few questions that if you guys were there, maybe you could answer? These questions are asked to make you think...

• Is the lease signed for this facility, and what are the terms?
• What is the length of terms that this temp facility is expected to be open for in years?
• When is the start date of the terms?
• What are the expected dates the dirt track will begin construction and open officially?
• What are the expected dates the road course and 1/8th mile begin construction and open officially?
• Are the proper construction and environmental permits (such as grading), etc. completed? If not, will they delay construction?
• Will there be a compacted base fill underneath the racing surfaces for environmental concerns?
• Will there be any night events?
• If during the day, will there be electricity available?
• What is the expected cost to construct the facility and are investors expected to be able to make a return investment?
• Will the insurance for the events be group or individual?
• Will events be able to be sanctioned for cheaper operating costs?
• Once opened, will all venues (including newly formed start-ups) be able to operate at this facility or only venues run by specific people?
• If other venues are able to operate, will there be a base rental rate to operate or will it be venu-specific?

Just a few basic questions, I'm hoping got answered.

I'd like to add that I've talked to every city councilman but Todd Apo (we have an upcoming meeting with him as well), and they're not against racing at all. I recently had meetings with Nestor Garcia & Barbara Marshall. They've basically stated that they're forced to have to choose priorities. Spending 18 million to 60 million dollars for condemnation of a racing facility when the sewers, education, and road systems are in such dire need of help is what's questionable. They have to choose the highest and best appropriation of funds within their limited budget. They are not anti-racing. Every one of them have vowed to help us when it comes time to get the necessary permits, etc. to push whatever we get through the system promptly and efficiently...and that's something that they're actually capable of providing us. These are not people who live in absolute worlds...they are not evil, uncaring people who hate racers. They just have bigger priorities. In my opinion, we could clog their phone lines, and it wouldn't change much. Just look at the bowling alley condemnation for example.

We cannot reasonably ask the City of Honolulu to fork over 18 to 60 million dollars to condemn a facility that's going to be used to increase the employment and overall industrial strength of the State of Oahu. That's what Irongate intends to do...it might seem evil that they took our racetrack and our chopping it up...but economically, for their business, for our cities and our state, it's the right thing for THEM to do. Having the City also condemn their property, after purchasing it, would send a discouraging message to other investors interested in expanding our industrial sector. And if you know about Oahu, then you already know that our industrial sectors are weak, and that we need more development in that area. And that's just the cost for condemnation...we have to rebuild the entire track from the ground up afterwards. Adding to the total cost.

A wiser move would be to take the money that would be spent for condemnation, and invest it in already state or city-owned land for development of a raceway facility. Or use it to purchase land...even ag land...and working with the City Council to allow upzoning of that land from ag to IMX to allow the facility to operate.

Ask yourself what a public citizen of Honolulu would want more? Decent roads and a working sewer system, or a racetrack they'll never go to? We are a minority in this state, and we have to work with the system to make this work.

We cannot use FEAR to scare politicians into doing what we need them to do. We must use intelligent discussion and discourse. FEAR tactics is what pisses them off and makes them fight against us even more.

When the P9 incentives were moving through the legislature, there was an attempt to bridge a connection, and to inform SORT that condemning HRP was going to be a long, difficult, and most likely improbably option due to the amount of money it would take, plus the legal and political bureaucracy that would come along with it. As you can see, condemnation of HRP has been VERY difficult...and in all probability, is not going to happen. It's simply the truth.

Most of this discussion was located on Forums Hawaii, but since that's wiped clean...the earliest I can show you an example is a post from April 2006 by one of the supporters of P9.

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpos...4&postcount=36

http://www.hawaiithreads.com/showpos...8&postcount=59

The point being made...is that even if we all sent in about a gazillion letters, the chance of convincing the City that condemnation would be a wise investment, and JUSTIFIABLE for the greater good of Oahu would be a hard sell. Which one is more important for the greater good? Economic and Industrial Growth for the entire island or a Motorsports Facility for a minority of people?

Regarding the temporary facility, SCCA knows about it. SCCA is a member of OMAC. Ed Hollmann is the Regional Executive for SCCA. SCCA's current stance is that they are for whatever facilities will provide a return to racing. SCCA knows about P24. Let's talk about investment for a second. Can you identify anyone that is able to invest the money necessary to construct a temporary asphalt surface that will be able to recoup their investment within two years? You must remember that these organizations need to garner a small profit to operate. They cannot operate at a loss. They are still a business, Non-profit or not. The only way that our organizations will survive is to be placed into a situation similar to our operation at HRP. Which is we paid a specific amount of rent for a specific location that had asphalt surfaces already. If we have to build the track, plus pay for rent, plus pay for insurance, maintenance, etc, we will be operating at a loss. That's the gist of what I can tell you.

As organizations, we must find ready made locations that can offer immediate use in order to survive. The ONLY way that we could survive after building a track, was if we had a LONG TERM LEASE of at the minimum 20 years or more. That way, we can justify to investors interested in helping us. Otherwise, getting investors to fork up over a million dollars or more for road racing surfaces is quite difficult.

A few months ago, OMAC was offered to operate alongside SORT on P24 by Micah Kane of DHHL for a 30-day, month-to-month lease. We had a several architects and engineers at the meeting. We told them that we cannot, and will not be able to justify building a temporary asphalt track on a 30-day lease with a 2-year time limit. That is our choice, and some of you may find it wrong...but these guys know what they're talking about.

Now I'm not here to slam SORT. What they are doing is the best that they are doing...and they are working the issues. If they are able to get a dirt track up and running, I say hell yes, the more power to them. If they are able to get asphalt racing surfaces there...then some of our organizations will be interested in supporting them with rent and events if allowed.

I'm just saying that there's a helluva lot more to the story than what's on the surface...and unless you're knee-deep in it, you can easily miss alot of important things.

I apologize for the long post...I just wanted to share my thoughts on the issue.

91sleeper

iTrader: (13)

thanks for the input. it sounds like SORT is trying to help everyone but when it comes down to it there is just no way to make money building an 1/8 mile way out there. the way i see it is looks to be a case of the carrot on string. we non-dirt racers are the donkeys and sort/dirt racers are holding that carrot out there and getting us to help them with their goals. thats all good and fine but whats to stop them from saying sry guys we can't do the asphalt track afterall but thanks for helpping us get a dirt track. idk to me it sounds like a lot of wishfull thinking and i hope they are able to pull it off. if they build it, i will race.

iNfEk

iTrader: (33)

Nice!

I know personally that you've been very active in this and I for one appreciate your efforts and the others helping you.

Jon

dub81

iTrader: (39)

Know that you mention it ArchangelX..I remember them saying that the first event I guess you could say is i think in December or something and it has something to do with the dirt track..Cant remember all the details as I was kinda spacing out here and there during the meet..But thanks for speaking your side of the story..Appreciate it alot..Just thought Id post this up for our Subaru Community and its car enthusiats..

ArchangelX

Just as a heads up, epsescially to you dub, I'm not saying DON'T do what SORT is saying as far as contacting your City Councilman...I'm not saying that at all.

My post was just trying to explain the difficulties that we are facing as organizations.