Flagrant abuse of power...HPD
09-09-2003 | 01:25 AM
#16
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Hey thanks for that link, I've got a few occurences to complain about myself. One involving my attempted car theft and another involving my neighbor's actual car theft where the cop arrested the guy who's car was stolen because he was being uncooperative, or maybe just because he happened to be of differring ethnic background than the arresting officer. None of these even hold a candle to the article in the Honolulu Advertiser a couple of Sundays ago on the front page. Did anyone happen to read it? It talked about how they had the son of the police chief ON VIDEO TAPE, meeting with various mafioso. Also records of high level detectives purchasing presidential suites at hotels for a convicted hit man. The article was really long and definately an eye opener about the quality of police "protection" here on the island. If I were you guys I would be hesitant to put a name on any complaint for fear of retribution. The complaint really needs to be anonymous. I have a feeling that in the next few years the feds will come in and there will be a big change in HPD, just like LAPD after the Rodney King deal when feds and the chief from New York came out and replaced the old chief and about half of the officers were demoted, arrested, or replaced. I don't think the people paying the salaries of the police officers will put up with this, its definately getting out of hand.
09-09-2003 | 07:22 AM
#17
Just to comment a bit. Yes, I agree with everyone on the board that there are, and always will be a few individuals in any profession who take advantage of their positions. Police Officers, unfortunately, are one of the most visible and under appreciated professions. I would estimate that 99% of Police contact with the general public is under negative circumstances, either someone broke the law or he/she has been an unfortunate victim of a crime. So for me, a skewed perception or plain dislike of Police in general is understandable. And yes, I agree with everyone that HPD has been taking one too many hits recently with bad decisions and unfortunate circumstances.
However, I want everyone to know that most HPD Officers honestly try, everyday, to keep you and everyone else in your community safe. I can honestly say that the training we receive to become police officers in Hawaii are some of the most difficult and comprehensive in the nation. Hawaii is also consistently ranked among the top in the nation when it comes to police training. My recruit class graduated with about 36 officers from 2000 possible candidates.
There's alot of pressure and negative baggage that comes along with the job. Nationally, Police Officers are more likely to commit suicide, get a divorce, get certain types of cancers, and die after retirement that any other profession. I've personally been punched, kicked, spit on, bit, even received death threats while on duty. I've seen and experienced things that I wish no one has to ever endure. But you know what, I love my job.
I'm answering this thread not to protect HPD, but to maybe shed a different light on the matter. To Rexstang, I'm truly sorry about your unfortunate run in with HPD. And anyone on this board is always welcome to ask me any questions pertaining to the law. If I can't answer it, i'll find someone who can. I just hope you don't let a few bad apples and instances ruin your perception of a great department.
However, I want everyone to know that most HPD Officers honestly try, everyday, to keep you and everyone else in your community safe. I can honestly say that the training we receive to become police officers in Hawaii are some of the most difficult and comprehensive in the nation. Hawaii is also consistently ranked among the top in the nation when it comes to police training. My recruit class graduated with about 36 officers from 2000 possible candidates.
There's alot of pressure and negative baggage that comes along with the job. Nationally, Police Officers are more likely to commit suicide, get a divorce, get certain types of cancers, and die after retirement that any other profession. I've personally been punched, kicked, spit on, bit, even received death threats while on duty. I've seen and experienced things that I wish no one has to ever endure. But you know what, I love my job.
I'm answering this thread not to protect HPD, but to maybe shed a different light on the matter. To Rexstang, I'm truly sorry about your unfortunate run in with HPD. And anyone on this board is always welcome to ask me any questions pertaining to the law. If I can't answer it, i'll find someone who can. I just hope you don't let a few bad apples and instances ruin your perception of a great department.
09-09-2003 | 10:30 AM
#18
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I wanted to address this issue and people's comments on this board as well.
1. Rexstang, police officers are human too and make mistakes also. I believe you probably did have the right of way and were very upset during this incident. Confronting another driver about the incident with colorful language and an angry demeanor is never a good idea. Let me ask you this, What do you think the outcome would have been if you did the same thing to a gang banger in L.A. I'm not trying to defend the officers actions as he was probably in the wrong, but you have to realize that this island is pretty safe compared to other places. Ask yourself why that might be?
Solution: In any traffic incident, report it, don't become angry and confront people. They become angry as well and feel you're attacking them. Even off duty when someone cuts me off I just shrug it off. It happens to everyone. As far as making a complaint I suggest that you do make a complaint with:
1. INTERNAL AFFAIRS-Officers overseeing other officers.
2. Honolulu Police Commision-Civilian overseeing officers.
Visiting a officer at his home is not a good idea, and I would not recommend it to anyone. Bad advice!
About 737STI comment about a police officer using a light and sirens to run a red to talk to other officer. Sometimes even though it's not an emergency there's urgency. What it appears to be and what it is are SOMETIMES different things. It could be that the officers are looking for a suspect and comparing physical descriptions, vehicle descriptions, ect. All I'm saying is don't just judge on face value or what you see sometimes.
Dave's comments do have merit as I am also of mixed ethnic background but do pull more Caucasian. I have also gotten some anti-haole comments, ect. But I realize that I've gotten this from local people in general. Although most local people are not racist, a small number of them still have this mentallity, just like every other race has their haters.
As for Dan, I totally disagree with you on it being the worst police department in the country. I'm sure you could find worst. I could say the same thing about MP's on base who call me for every crime that happens there because they don't want to deal with it. I also know that the majority of MP's are good and there are some stupid ones, as with anything in life.
I think the majority of HPD officers I work with are good people trying to do there jobs. Then there are a small minority of what I like to refer as MOKE's, aka dummies.
LIKE THE ONE WHO KEYED MY STI AT THE POLICE STATION THE FIRST DAY I TOOK IT TO WORK. I still don't know why police officers have such a hatred for import cars, but I think it's young honda punk have ruined our image. But I still have to deal with the MOKE's too!
All in all, hslin is right, police officers usually have negative contact with people. Whether it's giving someone a ticket or people calling because they've been victimized. We are the most underpaid professionals and underappreciated until someone is breaking into your car or house. Then were the first one's you call.
Imagine having to arrest combative 250lbs. Samoans on a regular basis for 33K a year! Now tell me you guys have it bad?
Sheesh...
1. Rexstang, police officers are human too and make mistakes also. I believe you probably did have the right of way and were very upset during this incident. Confronting another driver about the incident with colorful language and an angry demeanor is never a good idea. Let me ask you this, What do you think the outcome would have been if you did the same thing to a gang banger in L.A. I'm not trying to defend the officers actions as he was probably in the wrong, but you have to realize that this island is pretty safe compared to other places. Ask yourself why that might be?
Solution: In any traffic incident, report it, don't become angry and confront people. They become angry as well and feel you're attacking them. Even off duty when someone cuts me off I just shrug it off. It happens to everyone. As far as making a complaint I suggest that you do make a complaint with:
1. INTERNAL AFFAIRS-Officers overseeing other officers.
2. Honolulu Police Commision-Civilian overseeing officers.
Visiting a officer at his home is not a good idea, and I would not recommend it to anyone. Bad advice!
About 737STI comment about a police officer using a light and sirens to run a red to talk to other officer. Sometimes even though it's not an emergency there's urgency. What it appears to be and what it is are SOMETIMES different things. It could be that the officers are looking for a suspect and comparing physical descriptions, vehicle descriptions, ect. All I'm saying is don't just judge on face value or what you see sometimes.
Dave's comments do have merit as I am also of mixed ethnic background but do pull more Caucasian. I have also gotten some anti-haole comments, ect. But I realize that I've gotten this from local people in general. Although most local people are not racist, a small number of them still have this mentallity, just like every other race has their haters.
As for Dan, I totally disagree with you on it being the worst police department in the country. I'm sure you could find worst. I could say the same thing about MP's on base who call me for every crime that happens there because they don't want to deal with it. I also know that the majority of MP's are good and there are some stupid ones, as with anything in life.
I think the majority of HPD officers I work with are good people trying to do there jobs. Then there are a small minority of what I like to refer as MOKE's, aka dummies.
LIKE THE ONE WHO KEYED MY STI AT THE POLICE STATION THE FIRST DAY I TOOK IT TO WORK. I still don't know why police officers have such a hatred for import cars, but I think it's young honda punk have ruined our image. But I still have to deal with the MOKE's too!
All in all, hslin is right, police officers usually have negative contact with people. Whether it's giving someone a ticket or people calling because they've been victimized. We are the most underpaid professionals and underappreciated until someone is breaking into your car or house. Then were the first one's you call.
Imagine having to arrest combative 250lbs. Samoans on a regular basis for 33K a year! Now tell me you guys have it bad?
Sheesh...
09-09-2003 | 11:03 AM
#19
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The degree I recieved this past may is a preparatory one for those going into the law enforcement fields. I've written papers, talked to police officers and even have friends and family in police departments here and on the mainland. I will agree with hslin and bao ling that police officers are underpaid and overworked (need I mention the bus drivers?).
However, while they are in the most visible of occupations in the public saftey sector, there is no excuse for what happened with Rexstang. When you are right and a cop is wrong, the situation turns out just like it did with Rexstang... Dude, I think you should go for it and report that son of a ***** and do whatever you can. I'm behind you and support you...and I appreciate your well- written statement.
However, while they are in the most visible of occupations in the public saftey sector, there is no excuse for what happened with Rexstang. When you are right and a cop is wrong, the situation turns out just like it did with Rexstang... Dude, I think you should go for it and report that son of a ***** and do whatever you can. I'm behind you and support you...and I appreciate your well- written statement.
09-09-2003 | 12:39 PM
#20
it's interesting reading what the two officers wrote, ....... it almost seems as if the were in the military.
If there is something we, being in the military, can understand, it is a pure hatred and dislike in us, in general. for example, you think that all the "patriotism" found after 9-11 is "real"? ... hardly. To people who have been stationed around the country and around the World, ... we experience the prejudice from all types of people. Spit at and cursed at? At least you can understand what they are saying! (most of the time ) HELL, depending upon where you're at, ... you can't even score any punany b/c "you're a sailor". 
now, I'm not saying that [I]everyone[I] hates the military, .... but you get the idea.
As for Dan's comment about HPD being on the lower end of forces he's worked with, .... well, from what I've seen also from around the country and world, I'd have to agree this is the most corrupt police department I've ever seen.
anyhow, ... ... if you don't pull me over and give me "4 tickets at a time", .... that'd be nice of you. 
If there is something we, being in the military, can understand, it is a pure hatred and dislike in us, in general. for example, you think that all the "patriotism" found after 9-11 is "real"? ... hardly. To people who have been stationed around the country and around the World, ... we experience the prejudice from all types of people. Spit at and cursed at? At least you can understand what they are saying! (most of the time
) HELL, depending upon where you're at, ... you can't even score any punany b/c "you're a sailor". now, I'm not saying that [I]everyone[I] hates the military, .... but you get the idea.
As for Dan's comment about HPD being on the lower end of forces he's worked with, .... well, from what I've seen also from around the country and world, I'd have to agree this is the most corrupt police department I've ever seen.
anyhow, ... ... if you don't pull me over and give me "4 tickets at a time", .... that'd be nice of you.
09-09-2003 | 05:43 PM
#21
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No limit,
Only people that shouldn't be driving get more that one ticket. Aka people without insurance and a drivers license get ticketed for every violation as they shouldn't be on the road in he first place.
These are the guys that will "hit and run," leaving honest and hard working people with the bill for damages.
Just my style of policing.
Only people that shouldn't be driving get more that one ticket. Aka people without insurance and a drivers license get ticketed for every violation as they shouldn't be on the road in he first place.
These are the guys that will "hit and run," leaving honest and hard working people with the bill for damages.
Just my style of policing.
09-09-2003 | 07:07 PM
#22
......... i get more than one ticket every time I get pulled over, ..... they always think of something (improper lane change b/c I was changing lanes TOO fast-gotta remember to count to 10 etc,etc), .... and the only car that I've had that technically needs recon, I haven't even gotten a ticket in.
This thread is for Jayson to try and figure out a way to try and solve someone's lack of integrity, so I won't pollute it will all of my complaints, .... but he (Jayson) probably knows better than most about me being harassed by cops here, ... it's rediculous.
etc,etc), .... and the only car that I've had that technically needs recon, I haven't even gotten a ticket in.This thread is for Jayson to try and figure out a way to try and solve someone's lack of integrity, so I won't pollute it will all of my complaints, .... but he (Jayson) probably knows better than most about me being harassed by cops here, ... it's rediculous.
09-09-2003 | 08:11 PM
#23
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Then what about....
being fair and give out tickets to everyone who breaks a law even if their parents might be a police?? This happens everytime, oh do you know my, blah blah blah....??? Then that person is let go without any consequences. Like those 3 words on the police cars, honesty, integrity, and fairness.
But in conclusion, I guess this is how life works for everyone including me, it's who you know.
But in conclusion, I guess this is how life works for everyone including me, it's who you know.
09-09-2003 | 08:19 PM
#24
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First 12sec WRX in HI
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First of all, sorry to get everyone riled up. Thanks for providing the information I need. I will be contacting internal affairs.
To hslin and bao ling, I don't have anything against police officers in general. I know there are good and bad apples with every profession. I ran into a bad apple. Did I have a road rage incident, yes. Was I going to become violent, no. Would I have even turned around if the other driver didn't give me attitude while he was cutting me off, no. Was it right for him to use his profession and threaten to give me tickets or take me downtown? Hell NO!
I'm in very much the same position, If I'm involved in an incident with a Petty Officer in town should I use my status in the military to threaten disciplinary action on him. No. It is neither right nor legal.
Although this has nothing to do with my original comments, statements have been made that cops are under appreciated and underpaid. I would have to agree. You provide a great service and are not appreciated for it. For that I am sorry.
But I would like to highlight something as well the next time you pull over someone in the military. Do you consider the fact that many of our military members are dying on a daily basis in training or on foreign soil protecting our way of life? Do you realize many of them are living under the poverty line? A couple hundred dollars in tickets really hurts them. A night in jail can ruin their careers. Do you consider that when you come across a young military member? Not here in Hawaii. Many of my sailors will agree that HPD treats them far worse than other law enforcement departments do at other duty stations. If someone has a flagrant disregard for the law you need to do your job, no question. But when you pull someone over for a simple infraction keep in mind he may have just returned from doing a year overseas where a couple of his buddies have died and he still has to live on base with chump change in his pocket. So don't talk to me about being under appreciated!
To hslin and bao ling, I don't have anything against police officers in general. I know there are good and bad apples with every profession. I ran into a bad apple. Did I have a road rage incident, yes. Was I going to become violent, no. Would I have even turned around if the other driver didn't give me attitude while he was cutting me off, no. Was it right for him to use his profession and threaten to give me tickets or take me downtown? Hell NO!
I'm in very much the same position, If I'm involved in an incident with a Petty Officer in town should I use my status in the military to threaten disciplinary action on him. No. It is neither right nor legal.
Although this has nothing to do with my original comments, statements have been made that cops are under appreciated and underpaid. I would have to agree. You provide a great service and are not appreciated for it. For that I am sorry.
But I would like to highlight something as well the next time you pull over someone in the military. Do you consider the fact that many of our military members are dying on a daily basis in training or on foreign soil protecting our way of life? Do you realize many of them are living under the poverty line? A couple hundred dollars in tickets really hurts them. A night in jail can ruin their careers. Do you consider that when you come across a young military member? Not here in Hawaii. Many of my sailors will agree that HPD treats them far worse than other law enforcement departments do at other duty stations. If someone has a flagrant disregard for the law you need to do your job, no question. But when you pull someone over for a simple infraction keep in mind he may have just returned from doing a year overseas where a couple of his buddies have died and he still has to live on base with chump change in his pocket. So don't talk to me about being under appreciated!
Last edited by Rexstang; 09-09-2003 at 08:24 PM.
09-09-2003 | 08:38 PM
#25
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On a more positive note, I have met a few outstanding police officers in my time. I've been pulled over for a simple speeding ticket in both Georgia and Kansas and on both occasions the officers saw that I was serving my country just like they were and let me go with a warning. So a big to Kansas and Georgia! And yes I've been pulled over in HI twice the first time I was given a speeding ticket, 67 in a 55 along with a no front license plate ticket and a no recon ticket for a total of $227. On occasion #2 I was pulled over by a bike cop late one Saturday night near HRP where I paid to race legally bye the way, going home. He pulled me over in an obvious speed trap. 5 cops within a 2 mile radius leads me to believe it was a trap. Anyway he pulls me over and says to me that he observed me speeding, when I mentioned I was obeying the posted speed limit and asked him how fast I was driving, he decided only to give me a no recon ticket and a no front licence plate ticket instead, $110. Must have been because I am a young looking asian guy in an modified import. Hawaii can learn something from Kansas and Georgia.
Please don't think I don't appreciate our boys in blue, I really do. I just don't have respect for people in any profession that abuse the power and authority that was given to them. Nor could I ever be a police officer myself, I obviously don't have the patience. So here is a big to all the upstanding police officers out there that have to deal with an under appreciative public. Its not much but you get the point.
BTW, how do I get one of those red badge stickers to put in my back window?
to Kansas and Georgia! And yes I've been pulled over in HI twice the first time I was given a speeding ticket, 67 in a 55 along with a no front license plate ticket and a no recon ticket for a total of $227. On occasion #2 I was pulled over by a bike cop late one Saturday night near HRP where I paid to race legally bye the way, going home. He pulled me over in an obvious speed trap. 5 cops within a 2 mile radius leads me to believe it was a trap. Anyway he pulls me over and says to me that he observed me speeding, when I mentioned I was obeying the posted speed limit and asked him how fast I was driving, he decided only to give me a no recon ticket and a no front licence plate ticket instead, $110. Must have been because I am a young looking asian guy in an modified import. Hawaii can learn something from Kansas and Georgia.Please don't think I don't appreciate our boys in blue, I really do. I just don't have respect for people in any profession that abuse the power and authority that was given to them. Nor could I ever be a police officer myself, I obviously don't have the patience. So here is a big
to all the upstanding police officers out there that have to deal with an under appreciative public. Its not much but you get the point. BTW, how do I get one of those red badge stickers to put in my back window?
Last edited by Rexstang; 09-09-2003 at 09:14 PM.
09-09-2003 | 08:57 PM
#26
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yeah i really hate how some of hpd use the do as i say not as i do rule. for example their tinted windows I know that can't be legal. oh yeah and doing more than the posted speed limit. just thought i'd throw my 2 cents in.
Jess
Jess
09-09-2003 | 10:08 PM
#27
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That' the point I was trying to get accross-not all of us are the same, things are changing with the next generation. Just look at me and hslin, we drive wrx's. And don't think that I haven't felt the consequences on that choice. Like I said before, the other night I took it to the police station for work, and when I get ready to go home I see it's been keyed. Who do I think keyed it- A POLICE OFFICER!
I mean, I have partners that just love giving tickets to guys with import cars. I still don't understand their reasoning on that. I really do blame 17 year old honda boys with exhaust, and acting stupid for that one.
As for motorcycles and VAS cars(black camero that have a light bar, part of traffic division). Their job is to enforce traffic laws, and that's all they do. When was the last time you called the police to make a report and a motorcycle officer came? Hehe...yeah right!!! My brother even got a ticket from one of them!
I think recon laws are just ludicris and have personally never given an honest person a ticket for this. I have given about two recon tickets, but it's to guys that are known car thief/burglars, driving around looking for stuff to steal or burglarize. Recon is a law enforcement tool, used to stop criminals. It gives me P.C. to stop criminals. Although I have threaten honda racer boys that were doing burn outs in kakaako park with the ticket to get them to stop, I never gave them one.
As for the sticker, I'll give you a white or yellow shopo sticker. Just tell me what color you want.
I'm just saying give us a chance before you judge us all. The younger generation of officers are different. The thing is, there are a lot of old timers out there with that same way of thinking.
I mean, I have partners that just love giving tickets to guys with import cars. I still don't understand their reasoning on that. I really do blame 17 year old honda boys with exhaust, and acting stupid for that one.
As for motorcycles and VAS cars(black camero that have a light bar, part of traffic division). Their job is to enforce traffic laws, and that's all they do. When was the last time you called the police to make a report and a motorcycle officer came? Hehe...yeah right!!! My brother even got a ticket from one of them!
I think recon laws are just ludicris and have personally never given an honest person a ticket for this. I have given about two recon tickets, but it's to guys that are known car thief/burglars, driving around looking for stuff to steal or burglarize. Recon is a law enforcement tool, used to stop criminals. It gives me P.C. to stop criminals. Although I have threaten honda racer boys that were doing burn outs in kakaako park with the ticket to get them to stop, I never gave them one.
As for the sticker, I'll give you a white or yellow shopo sticker. Just tell me what color you want.
I'm just saying give us a chance before you judge us all. The younger generation of officers are different. The thing is, there are a lot of old timers out there with that same way of thinking.
Last edited by bao ling; 09-09-2003 at 10:14 PM.
09-09-2003 | 11:09 PM
#28
Bao Ling is right. Not all of us are tag happy! I personally give more warnings then citations, it's just not what i'm into. I would rather bust a drug dealer then tag someone for speeding, that's just me.
I agree that the Military is grossly underappreciated, especially in Hawaii. And I can honestly say that I have not tagged any Military personnel post 9-11. I have let alot of military personnel go on various infractions and have gone out of my way to help them in appreciation for their duty to our country. To all of our Military personnel, Much Mahalos!
To Rexstang, HPD Officers should be held to a higher standard, and the incident should never have occurred. I hope everything gets resolved.
I agree that the Military is grossly underappreciated, especially in Hawaii. And I can honestly say that I have not tagged any Military personnel post 9-11. I have let alot of military personnel go on various infractions and have gone out of my way to help them in appreciation for their duty to our country. To all of our Military personnel, Much Mahalos!
To Rexstang, HPD Officers should be held to a higher standard, and the incident should never have occurred. I hope everything gets resolved.
09-10-2003 | 12:14 AM
#29
Angry Dan
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Originally posted by bao ling
As for Dan, I totally disagree with you on it being the worst police department in the country. I'm sure you could find worst. I could say the same thing about MP's on base who call me for every crime that happens there because they don't want to deal with it. I also know that the majority of MP's are good and there are some stupid ones, as with anything in life.
As for Dan, I totally disagree with you on it being the worst police department in the country. I'm sure you could find worst. I could say the same thing about MP's on base who call me for every crime that happens there because they don't want to deal with it. I also know that the majority of MP's are good and there are some stupid ones, as with anything in life.
Originally posted by Mach5WRX
I have lived all over the would, and traveled over the US. So I think I can say this without anyone having too much of a problem with it.
HPD is the worst PD I have ever seen/worked with, in the whole world - Period!
It's a shame too, because I have meet some really good HPD officers.
I have lived all over the would, and traveled over the US. So I think I can say this without anyone having too much of a problem with it.
HPD is the worst PD I have ever seen/worked with, in the whole world - Period!
It's a shame too, because I have meet some really good HPD officers.
Now as far as this...."I could say the same thing about MP's on base who call me for every crime that happens there because they don't want to deal with it. "
MP's only have jurisdiction over U.C.M.J for most things.(Hawaii state has our hands tied) So even on post we sometimes need local law enforcement help. That's about as much as I can say over the internet. But if you need more info, I'll explain it better in person sometime.
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