gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Ever raced a fwd with a Quiafe or Kaaz 1 or 1.5 front LSD? If so, what did you think?

b_drift

iTrader: (12)

hell yeah. i tried a mini cooper S w/ upgraded pulley and other stuff w/ autoX tires stock open diff and kept frying the tires out of corners. he then put in a quaife and i tried it again at the test and tune. it flat out rips. the car is crazy fast now. you don't really notice the LSD, you just notice the lack of frying tires when exiting turns under acceleration.

if i ever get a HOMO (honda motorsports, like nismo...duh) i would get a quaife. big dollars, but it is better than that phantom grip crap. i had the phantom crap in my old b16 civic and it sucked.

what are you getting????? i still love my hondas though. just never had the chance to race a modded one recently.

my 240 has the kaaz 2way in it and it is harsh. so harsh i don't drive it on the street anymore. the fwd ones that are 1.5 and 1 way are probably softer or can be made that way.

b

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

DUDE, that is awesome info. I read the ELEMENT TUNING nasioc thread on their EJ257/GT65 turbo powered WRX time attack with G. Sheehan as the pilot. He stipulated 2 things: that they swap the stock front LSD with a Quaife and Stoptechs (I couldn't agree more.) They said that the LSD swap was just a straight-forward drop in (I'd screw it up, tho.)

Anyhow, in my search for a beater, I've been pretty polarized against anything FWD, but I know that many folks race them. I just have experienced crappy stock front transaxles POS cars and frankly they scare me with regards to racing.

This just opens up my search.

What I've seriously looked at so far are the S14-type 240, the small, ****ty, old American RWD POS's (Pinto, Chevette, Corvair, Capri...), and the BMW 325ix AWD.

If I opened up my search to FWD, I think I'd generally consider any Honda/Acura. I'd start my search with the Legend or Prelude (you know the deal. No replacement for displacement.)

b_drift

iTrader: (12)

no, no legend or prelude. they are heavy. remember there is no replacement for a heavy car.

i think you would love a 88-91 civic w/ b16 motor. you could do the swap and you will enjoy it. i had a 89 before full interior 4dr and 185/60-14 re92's i got a 14.7 @ 90? i forget already but i think my #'s are still up on some honduh forums. w/ 20" slicks i got low 14's. 2nd in streetcar shoot out brackets on the re92's.

it was my favorite of all the cars i have owned so far. no problems, just park it and hope no one would mess with it. it got me about 28-31 mpg. the sti is my second favorite only because i am paranoid when driving and parking due to the attention it gets.

i wish i had money for a quaife back then. oh well. b

ps. if i find a stupid cheap 88-91 hatchback hybrid i will jump on it for myself.
pps. 88 is actually a bad year as the suspension is not the same as the 89-91 even though they are practically identical as the years go on.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Great info. So the B16 came in US cars? I thought that was only an swap option.

I'll do my research, but I'm looking for something that I can take a sawsall to, put a cage in, and beat on people. You know how frustrating it is playing TOCA2 and your car is no faster than every other car on the track? I want to be able to have a torquey monster that pulls me through corners.

I'd be fine doing a swap, but I only have glancing knowledge of Honda.

markpaco

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't necessarily stay away from the 88's. The only real difference as far as I know is that the rear LCA is a stamped steel unit like that of the 97-01 ITR. You can swap them out for the 89-95 Civics or the 90-01 Integras if you really want to. But with the 88 LCA, you can run the same Tein shocks meant for the ITR.

But IMO, I'd rather get a 92-95 Civic hatch. Sure they are played out but they are hands down the best civic out there, IMO. I used to have a 95 Si with a 97 ITR motor, CTR trans + 98+ JDM ITR FD. It also had a JDM 4-1 header and the whole OEM JDM look (headlights, corners, side markers, front lip, stickers, power folding mirrors, guage cluster, flare, power windows, locks, etc). That car was a blast to drive and I regret selling it. So I am on the lookout for a 94-95 Si so that I can build another one.

Oh, BTW, an FWD with a LSD makes a HUGE difference. I refuse to own a FWD w/o one and all of the hybrids and 'special' hondas I've owned had them. I personally don't like FWD for racing since don't really consider it a 'pure' sports car layout. But you can't beat the reliability, practicality, and fuel economy of a typical FWD Honder. A FWD hybrid Civic stripped down with full susp and 13x7 or 14x7 rubber can lay down some serious hurt at the auto-x or road race.

b_drift

iTrader: (12)

yeah. the bad stuff about the eg's are the prices (inflated since it is nice) and the looks that make it that much more easy to want to buy cosmetic stuff for it.

yeah, but if you keep the 88 arm, and hit stuff (when you race) it might be fun trying to get replacements at junk yards. it is just easier to get 89 and up. the weigth also goes up about 20-50 lbs each year depending on how much honda added to rigidity/safety/plushness in materials/etc.

also, i owned a 12sec se-r and can say that a FF car is not as scary on the throttle as my 12 sec 240. so platformwise, the FF felt kinda more secure around the big track.

b

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

So many great points. This thread, if it were on another board, addresses so many things that could be discussed with page after page.

The two things that y'all have said that I'll ask about are about drag racing and racing a fwd in general.

ALL THAT I KNOW from a performance care standpoint wrt racing is my Subaru. I had a 5.0 and other FR v8's before, but I didn't know **** about them and never really raced them. For that matter, I totalled the 5.0 because I didn't know how to handle it's power.

Barry, I love all aspects of racing so as I look for a beater, my mindset is the same as what it was/is with my WRX. I want an 11 sec car that I can safely road race. ie, I don't see any reason that I can't do it. This may be a case where 'I don't know what I don't know' and since I technically don't yet have an 11 sec car, I might find that once I do, that as 'set-up' as it is for road racing/autox, an 11sec drag car, no matter awd, fwd, or rwd, it's not appropriate for the road. I don't know. I feel that I can do that, tho, with a WRX. You know how a lot of folks over on Nasioc seem to be down on drag racing, stating that the WRX isn't meant to be drag raced. I disagree. It seems stupid to me for those guys to state that when it's so EASY to take the stock STi WELL INTO THE 12's!!!

Being such a 'well travelled' car owner and car racer, having owned several different types, I feel like you're a good resource in that department. Now that you're the current owner of an STi I wonder what you'd say about the huge differences between drag racing a 12 second RWD car vs a 12 sec FWD vs what launching your STi (already close to being a 12 second car right off of the showroom floor.)

Also, the question or statement I'd have for Mark would be that a) I'm looking for a low-cost, entry level car for racing. With that in mind, I don't plan on being competitive starting out so racing a FF car, so long as it's not scary (with the introduction of a front LSD) I think I'd be happy. Of all of the ways to actually be able to 'race', I've figured that it would be easiest and least expensive to autox and trackday with a beater car over karting, midget racing....

So, is a civic with an LSD something that you'd recommend for a complete novice (one who has only autox'd a turbo, awd car previously?)

Also, for someone who's put down double his investment in his WRX (I've spent as much money on parts for the car as the actual purchase of the car, but I believe it's been in all the right places)...would the expense of tricking out a civic be shockingly much less. As a note, I have no interest in a JDM car. I would only put money into things that would allow the car to stick to the track like it were on a rail....big brakes, the absolute best, tight suspension, and a wicked powerful, most likely forced induction (or N20) breathing engine?

Sorry I ramble so much.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Definition of 1vs1.5vs2:

markpaco

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, to each his own. If I were to get another Civic I would pass on the JDM stuff because it would only bring more attention to it getting stolen. I'd say that for 8-12k (3-5k for the civic, 3-5k for the motor swap, and another 2k for the susp+power mods), you'd have one spankin' civic. I don't think it would hit 12's but definintely high 13's.

Also, LSD for any car isn't something that you have to learn to handle. It will get the power to the ground and you will notice that you will be able to power out of corners much sooner and more effectively.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

Sweet.

I'll search, but would the figure still be $12k for just the following?
Car
Swap and turbo kit that would put me in the 11's or better
Small inexpensive, but light rims
DRs and good street tires like some sort of pzero's or AVS or KDWS
Stoptechs
Tein Flex
KAAZ or Quaife 1.5 way
chassis stiffening stuffs
4 pt rollcage (if that's sufficient for my purposes)

Is there anything not feasible about that setup?

markpaco

iTrader: (3)

Car Swap and turbo kit that would put me in the 11's or better. $8k for EG + swap + $3000 for turbo?

Small inexpensive, but light rims DRs and good street tires like some sort of pzero's or AVS or KDWS $1500 (Rotas + good tires)

Stoptechs $2000? DIY install

Tein Flex $1500? DIY install

KAAZ or Quaife 1.5 way $800+labor or DIY

chassis stiffening stuffs $500 (front/rear strut bar, front/rear lower arm bar, etc)

4 pt rollcage (if that's sufficient for my purposes) $500+labor or DIY

That comes out to $17,800. Yikes. I'd say it would be better to buy a hybrid outright and turbo it from there. Built hybrids are cheaper than building one yourself (but where's the fun in that?). That way you can get the EG or EF hybrid for $4-8k instead of 8-12k.

keirnna

iTrader: (8)

Why would you get the Tein Flex's? You can't use the EDFC at autoX. Either way I think you should build up and 85, or 86 Corolla GTS! Get an AE86!

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

I don't use my EDFC now during autox...it's too distracting while I drive.

It's not illegal to have EDFC, you just have to unplug it prior to making your runs. There's nothing illegal about adjusting your dampening between runs, or at least it passes my common sense rule. Also, good Hachi=hard to find.

keirnna

iTrader: (8)

I was going to go with the flex's, but Mike said they were illegal for autoX to have the EDFC on, so I said, "I'll just turn it off during runs then." He said that when you turn it off you loose all of your settings. I don't know if that is correct or not, but Mike's pretty smart. I went with the Zero 2 R's, so either way I'll be safe. Look on ebay I have seen some good 86's on there for $2k to $3k. There are only 2 up right now and they are too pricy, but keep checking if you are really interested in one.