Engine/Power - EJ25T (STI and 2006+ WRX) Discussions about the USDM 2006+ WRX and WRX STi 2.5 liter turbo flat-four.

motor build

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-09-2010 | 07:52 PM
  #1  
venom225's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 98
From: Louisiana
Car Info: WRX STI 07
motor build

i want to figure out the best way to build a strong motor...some say buy a package deal like the ones off of vivid racing where they offer a block pistons crank shaft rods and what not but some people say its not because its not blue printed....others say buy it one piece at a time block then pistons then crankshaft and rods then bring it to a builder and have him throw it together....which to me seems almost exaclty like buyying a pacakge deal like one that vivid racing offers and wth does blue print mean? i thought blue print meant planning something before it happens sorta like instructions....how you blue print a motor

sounds dumb but you gotta ask to learn right? thanks anyone who actually reads this
Old 02-10-2010 | 08:09 AM
  #2  
Shayhan27's Avatar
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,127
From: Livermore
Car Info: LUMPY CGM 05 WRX
Hey Hopefully I can illuminate your situation.

Lets start with blueprinting. This is what wikipedia has to say about it.

[edit] Blueprinting
In engine blueprinting, all the specifications are double-checked. Usually this indicates closer-than-factory tolerances, with custom specifications appropriate for a street car or a race car. The goals usually are to:

Ensure the engine puts out the rated power (because not all mass-production engines put out the rated power) for its manufacturer's design
or

Make more power out of a given engine design, by extra careful measurement and assembly
balancing of reciprocating parts and rotating assemblies, to reduce engine vibrations thus achieving more power due to recovery of power "lost" to vibrations
Ideally, blueprinting is performed on components removed from the production line before normal balancing and finishing. If finished components are blueprinted, there is the risk that the further removal of material will weaken the component. However, lightening components is generally an advantage in itself provided balance and adequate strength are both maintained, and more precise machining will in general strengthen a part by removing stress points, so in many cases performance tuners are able to work with finished components.

For example, an engine manufacturer may list a piston ring end-gap specification of 0.003 to 0.005 inches for general use in a consumer automobile application. For an endurance racing engine which runs hot, a "blueprinted" specification of 0.00045 to 0.00050 may be desired. For a drag-racing engine which runs only in short bursts, a tighter 0.00035 to .00040 inch tolerance may be used instead. Thus "Blueprint" can mean tighter or looser clearances, depending on the goal.

So basically all the measurements are double checked and sometimes material removed to make them all the same. Parts i.E. pistons and rods are weighed to get them as close as possible to the same weight. etc...

My reccomendation when it comes to building a motor is to find a reputable shop that specializes in subaru motors and ask them what they think. The factory rods and crank are pretty damn solid You may be best to go with a factory shortblock which can be had really cheap and then throw in some quality pistons and good main and rod bearings while the engine is apart. the money you save buying aftermarket rods and crank wil cover the pistons and bearings and ptobably the labor to install.

Good luck man and I hope my information was useful.
Old 02-10-2010 | 08:36 AM
  #3  
venom225's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 98
From: Louisiana
Car Info: WRX STI 07
that basically answers all of my questions...i probably should have googled it myself i wanted opinions though thank you much!!
Old 02-10-2010 | 01:27 PM
  #4  
FW Motorsports's Avatar
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
I'd like to add that if you are going to pay extra money for a "blueprinted" engine, make sure you get a copy of the blueprint/drawings/information sheet.

If you don't get a detailed build sheet, you've been had.
Old 02-10-2010 | 03:16 PM
  #5  
vodka's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,610
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Car Info: 4日本車
Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
If you don't get a detailed build sheet, you've been had.
You mean Steve, THE Steve of FLI duped me???! This is shocking Paul! I should have known something was up when I saw Steve eating a giant, greasy, dripping cheeseburger on some large sheet of paper that looked like blueprints, back when he was building my motor.



Old 02-10-2010 | 06:37 PM
  #6  
FW Motorsports's Avatar
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Originally Posted by vodka
You mean Steve, THE Steve of FLI duped me???! This is shocking Paul! I should have known something was up when I saw Steve eating a giant, greasy, dripping cheeseburger on some large sheet of paper that looked like blueprints, back when he was building my motor.



FLI Steve is exempt.
Old 02-11-2010 | 06:23 PM
  #7  
venom225's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 98
From: Louisiana
Car Info: WRX STI 07
so effectivly buying a block and a stroker kit would be the same thing as building a motor built to handle anything thinking a subaru ej257 block a 2.7 liter stroker kit all other motor components a gt35r with a custom intake mani and exhaust mani do you guys think i could turn that turbo in the 3500rpm range with the stroker kit also would the block be able to handle an 8300rpm mark with proper equipment and what not..also some people say a gt35r does not spool up in first gear on an 07 sti(without engine build) im just trying to gather ideas because when i pay the car off im going to build it from the bottom up! which is best turbo for a very strong power band from 3500rpm all the way to redline
Old 02-11-2010 | 11:39 PM
  #8  
vodka's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,610
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Car Info: 4日本車
Originally Posted by venom225
so effectivly buying a block and a stroker kit would be the same thing as building a motor built to handle anything thinking a subaru ej257 block a 2.7 liter stroker kit all other motor components a gt35r with a custom intake mani and exhaust mani do you guys think i could turn that turbo in the 3500rpm range with the stroker kit also would the block be able to handle an 8300rpm mark with proper equipment and what not..also some people say a gt35r does not spool up in first gear on an 07 sti(without engine build) im just trying to gather ideas because when i pay the car off im going to build it from the bottom up! which is best turbo for a very strong power band from 3500rpm all the way to redline
You want an 8300rpm redline on an EJ257? If you have that much money then you should just be talking to Cosworth's sales staff and telling them you want a motor that will handle an 8300rpm redline and a GT35R, not asking i-club lol. These questions are all questions for whoever is going to build your motor. An engine builder will usually get irritated if you just walk in with all of the internet's opinions on what pistons are best, etc. The person who actually BUILDS your motor has their own preferences based on their personal experience, and they will know what should be done for you.

You're talking about approximately $14-18k in just a long-block and intake manifold with those kinds of demands. If you want to have a setup delivered to your door, call Cosworth and be done; otherwise go to a local machine shop, and/or reputable Subaru shop to have a build sheet drawn up for your requirements.

Last edited by vodka; 02-11-2010 at 11:42 PM.
Old 02-12-2010 | 11:54 AM
  #9  
Concillian's Avatar
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 369
From: Dublin, CA
Car Info: 02 WRX sedan
Originally Posted by venom225
so effectivly buying a block and a stroker kit would be the same thing as building a motor built to handle anything thinking a subaru ej257 block a 2.7 liter stroker kit all other motor components a gt35r with a custom intake mani and exhaust mani do you guys think i could turn that turbo in the 3500rpm range with the stroker kit also would the block be able to handle an 8300rpm mark with proper equipment and what not..also some people say a gt35r does not spool up in first gear on an 07 sti(without engine build) im just trying to gather ideas because when i pay the car off im going to build it from the bottom up! which is best turbo for a very strong power band from 3500rpm all the way to redline
2.5L + stroker to 2.7L isn't for everyone. This necessitates a custom crank, very short comp height custom pistons, and potentially custom rods, I don't really know if there is anything needed to get the rod bolts to clear the case with the longer stroke. A full custom setup here is expensive, really expensive.

Usually the people considering this kind of thing would be looking at significantly larger turbos than the 35r, which can be made to work adequately without such expense.

I think you need to start with what the purpose of your build is. About the only people who seriously consider a 2.7L stroker are people who are sponsored professionally or have money to burn. There are inherent issues with the design of the 2.7L stroker that make it less ideal for a normal person. The low rod to stroke ratio makes revving high beat the crap out of the bottom end due to the larger accelerations than shorter strokes. The extremely low compression height pistons are potentially an issue as well. It's an engine that is virtually designed for frequent rebuild.

Most people would be happier with a built 2.5L or even a de-stroked 2.35 with long rods for that turbo. These are much more friendly builds for the 'average' person who daily drives there car and doesn't want to rebuild every 20k miles or whatever.

With the right headwork and supporting mods, a 35r will give pretty equivalent power on 2.35 or 2.5L, the torque curve may even be more desirable, as the stroker is somehwhat of a torque monster engine.

IMO, look into your headwork first. In the meantime, read, read, read and look at every dyno chart you can. Start understanding why charts look so different for 2.0L EVOs than for 2.0L WRX engines and why a TD04 on a 2.0L WRX often has a higher peak power than the same TD04 on a 2.5L WRX. The 2.0L vs 2.5L with TD04 charts are especially valuable. These are almost direct correlations to how a 2.5L vs 2.7L stroker will act with the same turbo. Adding displacement with stroke does very different things to the torque curve than adding displacement with bore.
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jam007
Engine/Power - EJ20T (pre-2006 WRX and JDM)
20
04-18-2008 08:42 PM
ASPEN06
Engine/Power - EJ25T (STI and 2006+ WRX)
10
05-24-2006 09:28 PM
Vinces25RS
Engine/Power - non turbo (All non turbo Imprezas)
14
03-06-2005 11:10 PM
stealth-wrx
Engine/Power - EJ20T (pre-2006 WRX and JDM)
0
05-08-2003 09:11 PM
stealth-wrx
Engine/Power - EJ20T (pre-2006 WRX and JDM)
14
01-26-2003 09:27 PM



Quick Reply: motor build



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Top

© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands



When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.