I finally drove the Evo...my impressions and questions on modding STi.
02-21-2004, 10:02 PM
#1
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I finally drove the Evo...my impressions and questions on modding STi.
Hey guys,
Today i had a chance to drive the Evo for the first time...my initial impression of the car was that it wasn't that bad...prob bc the guy had a full turboback, intake, and an ebc, except he had it set at 19psi. anyways, i thought handling wise the evo was just a tad bit quicker then the STi...he had all season tires which took away some from the responsiveness. Lag i didn't notice...the turbo spools up really quickly....felt pretty smooth for a 2.0 cylinder...it started to really take off over 4,000rpms...but nothing beats the lowend torque of the STi. I thought driving the Evo would be very noticeable in the overall feel but difference was minimal...even the harshness factor i didn't really notice btw my STi and the Evo. i was impressed with the overall experience.
But heres my dilemna...i am not going to keep the car stock so i've been waiting for aftermarket companies to produce some sort of enginemanagement that produce efficient and reliable hp on stock internals for the STi...somewhere around 370whp-400whp. prob might have to switch out the turbo. i know the drive by wire throttle is one of the reasons why it might be taking longer than usual along with the STi having two ecu's. my question is...would it be worth waiting to see what's out there on the market for the STi when enginemanagment finally becomes available? cause i am getting the itch to mod the car but id rather do it reliably and here i am watching all these Evo owners modding their cars to 400whp, pushing up the boost to 22psi reliably as a daily driver on their big turbos. And even if enginemanagement comes out is it worth doing alot of mods on the STi for my whp goals on a semi closed deck as opposed to the Evo's cast iron block? the Evo's turbo and most of its stock internals are good for 400-450whp as a daily driver. So there you have it. i can sell the STi and get an Evo and mod it to a reliable daily driver even with 400whp or wait for the STi's enginemanagement to come out and end up spending more money to make it reliable bc of the limited market and a possible weaker engine block. Which route should i go? Would i end up spending more money on the STi in the long run for the same amount of whp in getting it to be reliable? Please no flames...i really would like some suggestions, opinions, on what i should do. My primary reason for such a car was to use it as a project car for the weekends, but making it reliable as a daily driver as well. thanks, Ghost
Today i had a chance to drive the Evo for the first time...my initial impression of the car was that it wasn't that bad...prob bc the guy had a full turboback, intake, and an ebc, except he had it set at 19psi. anyways, i thought handling wise the evo was just a tad bit quicker then the STi...he had all season tires which took away some from the responsiveness. Lag i didn't notice...the turbo spools up really quickly....felt pretty smooth for a 2.0 cylinder...it started to really take off over 4,000rpms...but nothing beats the lowend torque of the STi. I thought driving the Evo would be very noticeable in the overall feel but difference was minimal...even the harshness factor i didn't really notice btw my STi and the Evo. i was impressed with the overall experience.
But heres my dilemna...i am not going to keep the car stock so i've been waiting for aftermarket companies to produce some sort of enginemanagement that produce efficient and reliable hp on stock internals for the STi...somewhere around 370whp-400whp. prob might have to switch out the turbo. i know the drive by wire throttle is one of the reasons why it might be taking longer than usual along with the STi having two ecu's. my question is...would it be worth waiting to see what's out there on the market for the STi when enginemanagment finally becomes available? cause i am getting the itch to mod the car but id rather do it reliably and here i am watching all these Evo owners modding their cars to 400whp, pushing up the boost to 22psi reliably as a daily driver on their big turbos. And even if enginemanagement comes out is it worth doing alot of mods on the STi for my whp goals on a semi closed deck as opposed to the Evo's cast iron block? the Evo's turbo and most of its stock internals are good for 400-450whp as a daily driver. So there you have it. i can sell the STi and get an Evo and mod it to a reliable daily driver even with 400whp or wait for the STi's enginemanagement to come out and end up spending more money to make it reliable bc of the limited market and a possible weaker engine block. Which route should i go? Would i end up spending more money on the STi in the long run for the same amount of whp in getting it to be reliable? Please no flames...i really would like some suggestions, opinions, on what i should do. My primary reason for such a car was to use it as a project car for the weekends, but making it reliable as a daily driver as well. thanks, Ghost
02-21-2004, 11:47 PM
#2
im on the same page as you are on. i have a perrin downpipe, apex-i gt-spec cat back, blitz sus intake, but i want engine management. i dont want 400 whp, but i just want around 300whp, but so far i dont know how reliable this engine is. evo's are making big power with stock internals, which i would like to have too. i like subaru cars, want to stick with subaru, but if my engine is going to go out, or get weakened, because of detonation, i cant afford to let that happen. plus the internals of the evo are i think forged? but the sti's came out not being as strong.
i bought this car, not just so i can mod it, but because i thought subaru was very reliable, but now after hearing blowen engines, and not many people making big power, im wondering if i made the right choice.
-dashiet
i bought this car, not just so i can mod it, but because i thought subaru was very reliable, but now after hearing blowen engines, and not many people making big power, im wondering if i made the right choice.-dashiet
02-23-2004, 12:45 AM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 89
Originally posted by dashiet
im on the same page as you are on. i have a perrin downpipe, apex-i gt-spec cat back, blitz sus intake, but i want engine management. i dont want 400 whp, but i just want around 300whp, but so far i dont know how reliable this engine is. evo's are making big power with stock internals, which i would like to have too. i like subaru cars, want to stick with subaru, but if my engine is going to go out, or get weakened, because of detonation, i cant afford to let that happen. plus the internals of the evo are i think forged? but the sti's came out not being as strong. i bought this car, not just so i can mod it, but because i thought subaru was very reliable, but now after hearing blowen engines, and not many people making big power, im wondering if i made the right choice.
-dashiet
im on the same page as you are on. i have a perrin downpipe, apex-i gt-spec cat back, blitz sus intake, but i want engine management. i dont want 400 whp, but i just want around 300whp, but so far i dont know how reliable this engine is. evo's are making big power with stock internals, which i would like to have too. i like subaru cars, want to stick with subaru, but if my engine is going to go out, or get weakened, because of detonation, i cant afford to let that happen. plus the internals of the evo are i think forged? but the sti's came out not being as strong.
i bought this car, not just so i can mod it, but because i thought subaru was very reliable, but now after hearing blowen engines, and not many people making big power, im wondering if i made the right choice.-dashiet
02-23-2004, 10:37 PM
#4
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Elk Grove
Posts: 112
Car Info: 2003 WRX
Wish I could say something...just don't have an Sti. Just want to point out the obvious...the 4G63 engine has been around a lot longer than the EJ25, so all the tweaks have been worked out. And the so called "pinging" problem on some Sti's probably haven't helped at all.
02-24-2004, 12:30 PM
#5
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i don't have either car because of the very dilema you are facing. the Subaru seems nicer in a lot of ways and i think i trust Subaru a bit more overall. however, the lack of mods available and the blown engine stories are a bit scary. having this motor only in the US car limits the number of tuners who are going to make stuff for it and it's going to take longer to sort everything out.
the Mitsu on the other hand has an engine that the tuners have had plenty of time to tweak and most of the mods are well sorted out. if you want 400whp or even 500whp there are kits out there that can get you there. since the car has had several generations in Japan there are a lot of tuners who make parts for the Evos. the downside of this car to me is Mitsu's not so good track record when it comes to reliability and build quality. that Grand Am looking front end has got to go too !!!
i think if you really want a car you can tweak and turn into a daily driven 400whp car you're gonna have a much easier time with the Evo cuz cars like that are already out there. that's part of what has got me swinging back towards the Mitsu in my own decision process. that and the fact that some guy at my work just got a STI....
the Mitsu on the other hand has an engine that the tuners have had plenty of time to tweak and most of the mods are well sorted out. if you want 400whp or even 500whp there are kits out there that can get you there. since the car has had several generations in Japan there are a lot of tuners who make parts for the Evos. the downside of this car to me is Mitsu's not so good track record when it comes to reliability and build quality. that Grand Am looking front end has got to go too !!!
i think if you really want a car you can tweak and turn into a daily driven 400whp car you're gonna have a much easier time with the Evo cuz cars like that are already out there. that's part of what has got me swinging back towards the Mitsu in my own decision process. that and the fact that some guy at my work just got a STI....
02-24-2004, 10:31 PM
#6
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Wow. I wish the EJ25 took mods a lot better. I really like the overall build quality with Subaru better. Mitsu just has more "chinciness" but I've been studying for almost 2 years on forums and have to go with an evo for the better cornering and proven, easy high-power mods.
02-25-2004, 10:05 AM
#7
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Location: Omaha, NE
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Car Info: WRB 2003 WRX
Originally posted by Wrx17
Wish I could say something...just don't have an Sti. Just want to point out the obvious...the 4G63 engine has been around a lot longer than the EJ25, so all the tweaks have been worked out. And the so called "pinging" problem on some Sti's probably haven't helped at all.
Wish I could say something...just don't have an Sti. Just want to point out the obvious...the 4G63 engine has been around a lot longer than the EJ25, so all the tweaks have been worked out. And the so called "pinging" problem on some Sti's probably haven't helped at all.
02-25-2004, 12:02 PM
#8
well, i think most tuners are focusing on the evo because they want to see the capabilities of it. those tuner already know how much they can get out of the boxer engines, but since they already have the buisness of the subaru owners, now they need to get the buisness of the evo owners. just my opinion
02-27-2004, 09:50 AM
#9
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: leggtnut on legacygt.com
Posts: 258
Car Info: 2006 BSP LGT / 2004 JBP FXT
My opinion is that the STI is still too new with the EJ25 moter (which i have in my Baja T) and the Modders need time to test, blow engins and learn from their trials and errors. The EVO has a engin that has been out for mutch longer so the mods are known and proven. Just like the Mods for the the Pre-STI moters (sorry, don't recall the engin number). So in all, I believe that the Boxer engin has more potential than the EVO, we just need to wait and see. And not having the EJ25 in the asian market cuts the modifiers so it will take a bit longer. And from what I understand, in other markets, like asia, have higher taxes and fees on bigger engins unlike here in the US, and they are steap. So Subaru is not using the bigger than a 2.0L engin in those markets.
Just my .02 worth.
Ben
Just my .02 worth.
Ben
12-08-2004, 09:21 PM
#10
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Depends on what you want to do with the STi.....My philosophy is I want 300-315 whp on stock internals and turbo safely, if that's possible. That could be stretching it, even on 93 octane, but who knows. Someone WILL figure it out eventually, just like everyone else has said....give the EJ25T time to bounce around the aftermarket and it will probably match the evo in tunability. The evo is proven, but remember, why would Mitsu take a gamble on bringing out a new engine when they're really struggling as a company? It's just too risky business wise...hell, I would've done the same thing. You've got to give them credit where it's due....they're the Japanese Ferrari when it comes to engineering, they don't fix it if it ain't broken. The Evo just continues to evolve. Subie went with the 2.5 because of crappy US gas. They couldn't safely get 300 bhp out of the 2.0L motor, and I EMPHASIZE safely (and reliably). Remember, even though all of us (except Ca's) WILL use 93 octane or higher, Subaru has to play it conservatively. The MR is boosted to 20psi AND comes with a 10/100,000K powertrain warranty. That's some serious confidence in their product, but I still think that's a bit too high personally. Over a 100,000K lifespan, I'm guessing the Mitsu could have more potential problems than the Subie. Can you really doubt Subaru as a company though?? We're not dealing with Yugo here...just my 2 cents......
Last edited by BlackedOutSTi; 12-09-2004 at 10:19 AM.
12-09-2004, 06:11 AM
#11
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We had the same issues with the RSX and limited aftermarket availability. I bought a 2003, two years after the car came out and there was barely a single ECU tuner. The engine in USDM is the same as the JDM (minus ECU, cams, IM, EM) but we still had to wait for a while... and this was for an NA motor...
Now we have three levels (stages to you turbo heads
of ECU tune in the last year alone.
We have the same detonation issues running 11.5 : 1 compression.
Have faith, it will come.
An extra half liter of displacement may not seem like much but in a F/I engine it will pay long term dividends.
As I casual observer, I continue to look forward to see what MY06 and 07's change in the powertrain. They have already made some good improvements in a year and a half...
Besides, is it reasonable to think a daily driver (read: one that will run for 100K miles) can increase its power by more than 100% (at least for 350whp which is probably over 430 at the crank) on stock internals? Even if the evos are squeezing that kind of power, no one knows how long they will last...
Now we have three levels (stages to you turbo heads
of ECU tune in the last year alone.We have the same detonation issues running 11.5 : 1 compression.
Have faith, it will come.
An extra half liter of displacement may not seem like much but in a F/I engine it will pay long term dividends.
As I casual observer, I continue to look forward to see what MY06 and 07's change in the powertrain. They have already made some good improvements in a year and a half...
Besides, is it reasonable to think a daily driver (read: one that will run for 100K miles) can increase its power by more than 100% (at least for 350whp which is probably over 430 at the crank) on stock internals? Even if the evos are squeezing that kind of power, no one knows how long they will last...
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