Call us believers (alky injection)!
10-28-2005, 05:41 PM
#1
Call us believers (alky injection)!
Hey all,
So for quite awhile now, the rumors and facts about alcohol injection have swirled around. Is it safe? Is it one of the best bang for the buck power adders on the market? Are the gains real and consistent? We wanted to find out what all the fuss was about so we tested one of SMC's alky injection kits on Mike's 2.35L GT35R shop car. There are no completely new, earth moving, or mind blowing results or findings here but we were suprisingly impressed with the reliable gains shown by the kit.
A little background first:
Alcohol works by doing the following 2 important things:
1) It lowers the temperature of the intake charge thus creating a denser (and greater) air mass.
2) It raises the effective octane of your fuel which works towards avoiding detonation (the sworn enemy of engines).
These two factors are particularly beneficial on turbocharged cars because the effectiveness of turbocharging is dependent on having a dense and cool intake charge while also avoiding detonation. Boosted engines are particularly succeptable to detonation because they can see such high pressures and temperatures. By increasing the effective octane of your fuel, it allows you to run higher boost and also add more timing advance. As an added bonus, it also cleans carbon deposits in your engine.
Enough of that, here are the results:
+43.8 WHP and + 28 WTQ
Essentailly, alky injection appears to be like instant racegas for a whole lot cheaper. It runs on denatured alcohol which can be purchased for under $10 a gallon at places like Home Depot (the kit comes with a 1 gallon tank). If used correctly, it is safe, cheap, and effective way to gain reliable power. In fact, alcohol injection could be arguably the best bang for the buck power adding modification on the market. SMC is currently working on a failsafe that will be implented on their new kits. This will insure that when you're running out of alcohol, your car will revert to normal boost. We are very excited to be offering these kits for sale to the general public and look foward to testing them on many other applications. For more info, please check out our post in the Vendor thread.
Thanks,
Geoff
So for quite awhile now, the rumors and facts about alcohol injection have swirled around. Is it safe? Is it one of the best bang for the buck power adders on the market? Are the gains real and consistent? We wanted to find out what all the fuss was about so we tested one of SMC's alky injection kits on Mike's 2.35L GT35R shop car. There are no completely new, earth moving, or mind blowing results or findings here but we were suprisingly impressed with the reliable gains shown by the kit.
A little background first:
Alcohol works by doing the following 2 important things:
1) It lowers the temperature of the intake charge thus creating a denser (and greater) air mass.
2) It raises the effective octane of your fuel which works towards avoiding detonation (the sworn enemy of engines).
These two factors are particularly beneficial on turbocharged cars because the effectiveness of turbocharging is dependent on having a dense and cool intake charge while also avoiding detonation. Boosted engines are particularly succeptable to detonation because they can see such high pressures and temperatures. By increasing the effective octane of your fuel, it allows you to run higher boost and also add more timing advance. As an added bonus, it also cleans carbon deposits in your engine.
Enough of that, here are the results:
+43.8 WHP and + 28 WTQ
Essentailly, alky injection appears to be like instant racegas for a whole lot cheaper. It runs on denatured alcohol which can be purchased for under $10 a gallon at places like Home Depot (the kit comes with a 1 gallon tank). If used correctly, it is safe, cheap, and effective way to gain reliable power. In fact, alcohol injection could be arguably the best bang for the buck power adding modification on the market. SMC is currently working on a failsafe that will be implented on their new kits. This will insure that when you're running out of alcohol, your car will revert to normal boost. We are very excited to be offering these kits for sale to the general public and look foward to testing them on many other applications. For more info, please check out our post in the Vendor thread.
Thanks,
Geoff
10-28-2005, 07:55 PM
#3
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Your numbers are close to mine.
Are you using 100% booze?
What are the A/F #s when the alky is on?
I'm using a 50/50 mix of Methanol & H2O, which lowers combustion temps more than straight booze.
Are you using 100% booze?
What are the A/F #s when the alky is on?
I'm using a 50/50 mix of Methanol & H2O, which lowers combustion temps more than straight booze.
10-29-2005, 11:44 AM
#5
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alcohol is better then h20
alcohol cleans intake/valves, lower hood temp
alky just mixes with water,
alky injection works best with FMIC, give more time for it to atomize before getting to the cylinders.
meth needs meth lube to prevent it from eating through containers
supra guys use alky injection to run more boost then their fuel system can support, because it helps to cool the cylinder's/intake air temp, lowering chance of detonation.
alcohol cleans intake/valves, lower hood temp
alky just mixes with water,
alky injection works best with FMIC, give more time for it to atomize before getting to the cylinders.
meth needs meth lube to prevent it from eating through containers
supra guys use alky injection to run more boost then their fuel system can support, because it helps to cool the cylinder's/intake air temp, lowering chance of detonation.
10-29-2005, 03:46 PM
#7
Our results were with 100% alky and a capful of lube. It's debatable whether alky or water works better; a lot of people run a 50/50 mixture. This kit injects directly in front of the throttle body so it won't make a difference whether you have a FMIC or not.
-Geoff
-Geoff
10-29-2005, 06:55 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by gruppe-s
Our results were with 100% alky and a capful of lube. It's debatable whether alky or water works better; a lot of people run a 50/50 mixture. This kit injects directly in front of the throttle body so it won't make a difference whether you have a FMIC or not.
-Geoff
-Geoff
10-29-2005, 06:57 PM
#9
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I think alky and water do differenct things or at least do them differently.
When water siply carries out excessive heat with its molecules ouf of the combustion chamber, thus reducing EGT's and allowing to run leaner mixtures and eliminate the use of extra fuel that is "typically" used to reduce EGTs. You see, when your EGT's go up, people add fuel. True, but that does not mean that that fuel is being burned. It simply aomizes and carries out the heat out of your tail pipe. So with water inj water does that. So your A/F is optimal and your fuel consumption is way better.
With alky injection, it does same as water, plus it also burns just like the fuel. So you get 2 benefits.
Plus, I feel it is way safer to inject alky into your engine than water. In case **** hits the fan if you know what I mean.
Correct me if I am wrong on the two above staments on water and alky injection. That is from my knowledge. I didn't feel like copy pasting it from somewhere.
When water siply carries out excessive heat with its molecules ouf of the combustion chamber, thus reducing EGT's and allowing to run leaner mixtures and eliminate the use of extra fuel that is "typically" used to reduce EGTs. You see, when your EGT's go up, people add fuel. True, but that does not mean that that fuel is being burned. It simply aomizes and carries out the heat out of your tail pipe. So with water inj water does that. So your A/F is optimal and your fuel consumption is way better.
With alky injection, it does same as water, plus it also burns just like the fuel. So you get 2 benefits.
Plus, I feel it is way safer to inject alky into your engine than water. In case **** hits the fan if you know what I mean.
Correct me if I am wrong on the two above staments on water and alky injection. That is from my knowledge. I didn't feel like copy pasting it from somewhere.
10-30-2005, 12:57 AM
#10
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The goal for water, alcohol, or water/alcohol injection is to prevent detonation.
By injecting water, alcohol, or water/alcohol, one can add more boost, more timing, increase initial compresion ratio, etc.
Injecting 100% water achieves this goal by using water's higher latent heat value.
In short, the heat present in the combustion chamber is "used" to convert the water mist to steam, leaving no heat energy to cause knock.
Alcohol does it by raising the fuel's effective octane rating; Alcohol's octane rating is about 114, depending on the alcohol.
And, since alcohol is a fuel, it will affect the A/F ratio that the O2 sensor "sees."
This is the problem that I faced; With 2 injectors, the A/F ratio was 9.5-10:1 & I couldn't lean the mixture enough, which, of course, cost me power/torque.
I'm now using one injector and may use a 30/70 or 20/80 alcohol to water in order to hit 11ish:1 A/F ratio.
In general, you will not see any increased performance running any ratio greater than 50/50 alcohol to water, and since distilled water is cheaper than alcohol...
But don't take my word for it.
These guys know water injection.
By injecting water, alcohol, or water/alcohol, one can add more boost, more timing, increase initial compresion ratio, etc.
Injecting 100% water achieves this goal by using water's higher latent heat value.
In short, the heat present in the combustion chamber is "used" to convert the water mist to steam, leaving no heat energy to cause knock.
Alcohol does it by raising the fuel's effective octane rating; Alcohol's octane rating is about 114, depending on the alcohol.
And, since alcohol is a fuel, it will affect the A/F ratio that the O2 sensor "sees."
This is the problem that I faced; With 2 injectors, the A/F ratio was 9.5-10:1 & I couldn't lean the mixture enough, which, of course, cost me power/torque.
I'm now using one injector and may use a 30/70 or 20/80 alcohol to water in order to hit 11ish:1 A/F ratio.
In general, you will not see any increased performance running any ratio greater than 50/50 alcohol to water, and since distilled water is cheaper than alcohol...
But don't take my word for it.
These guys know water injection.
Last edited by FW Motorsports; 10-30-2005 at 01:06 AM.
10-30-2005, 01:40 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Oaf
The goal for water, alcohol, or water/alcohol injection is to prevent detonation.
By injecting water, alcohol, or water/alcohol, one can add more boost, more timing, increase initial compression ratio, etc.
Injecting 100% water achieves this goal by using water's higher latent heat value.
In short, the heat present in the combustion chamber is "used" to convert the water mist to steam, leaving no heat energy to cause knock.
Alcohol does it by raising the fuel's effective octane rating; Alcohol's octane rating is about 114, depending on the alcohol.
And, since alcohol is a fuel, it will affect the A/F ratio that the O2 sensor "sees."
This is the problem that I faced; With 2 injectors, the A/F ratio was 9.5-10:1 & I couldn't lean the mixture enough, which, of course, cost me power/torque.
I'm now using one injector and may use a 30/70 or 20/80 alcohol to water in order to hit 11ish:1 A/F ratio.
In general, you will not see any increased performance running any ratio greater than 50/50 alcohol to water, and since distilled water is cheaper than alcohol...
But don't take my word for it.
These guys know water injection.
By injecting water, alcohol, or water/alcohol, one can add more boost, more timing, increase initial compression ratio, etc.
Injecting 100% water achieves this goal by using water's higher latent heat value.
In short, the heat present in the combustion chamber is "used" to convert the water mist to steam, leaving no heat energy to cause knock.
Alcohol does it by raising the fuel's effective octane rating; Alcohol's octane rating is about 114, depending on the alcohol.
And, since alcohol is a fuel, it will affect the A/F ratio that the O2 sensor "sees."
This is the problem that I faced; With 2 injectors, the A/F ratio was 9.5-10:1 & I couldn't lean the mixture enough, which, of course, cost me power/torque.
I'm now using one injector and may use a 30/70 or 20/80 alcohol to water in order to hit 11ish:1 A/F ratio.
In general, you will not see any increased performance running any ratio greater than 50/50 alcohol to water, and since distilled water is cheaper than alcohol...
But don't take my word for it.
These guys know water injection.
I am a chemical engineer but unfortunately haven't done any of these calculations for years (I work in the cement business), any petroleum engineers out there who can help us out?
10-30-2005, 05:30 PM
#12
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All of the info I've come across says mixtures > 50% alcohol don't increase performance.
Check out this WI bbs.
There's lots of really useful info there.
Off the top of my head, water's latent heat is roughly 2X greater than alcohol's.
But to answer your question, I don't know.
Check out this WI bbs.
There's lots of really useful info there.
Off the top of my head, water's latent heat is roughly 2X greater than alcohol's.
But to answer your question, I don't know.
11-01-2005, 10:42 PM
#13
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So the above states the good; how about the bad?
Any issues with running alky and it interacting with rubber? Corrosive? I've read on other forums that it might be an issue for long term usage.
Any issues with running alky and it interacting with rubber? Corrosive? I've read on other forums that it might be an issue for long term usage.
11-02-2005, 10:51 PM
#14
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I have no idea what the long term effects of water/alcohol injection are.
But, since I'm now running just about 50% more hp & torque than the car came with, I'm sure various bits and pieces will wear out faster.
My nozzle is in the I/C, so the only rubber that's potentially affected is the I/C to throttle rubber hose.
I'll probably fine tune the system next week & then I can finish my write up on how to do this mod.
But, since I'm now running just about 50% more hp & torque than the car came with, I'm sure various bits and pieces will wear out faster.
My nozzle is in the I/C, so the only rubber that's potentially affected is the I/C to throttle rubber hose.
I'll probably fine tune the system next week & then I can finish my write up on how to do this mod.
11-03-2005, 08:28 PM
#15
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Don't UTECs have the ability to control a water/alchohol injection system already? How tough would it be to add one to to a Ecutek system rather than waiting for the SMC kit, whatever that might turn out to be?