turbo porting question
09-19-2003, 02:03 AM
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turbo porting question
hey i was going through ebay and found this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2432282807
i went to their website(http://www.deadboltspeed.com/index2.html) to learn more about- but i still have a couple of questions for any one that knows about it. For one how does will it effect the durability of the turbo? Also how does it affect mid range and top end? What is the max hp that can be produced from doing this? And finally would it be a good idea to port a aftermarket turbo?
Also if anyone has any kind of information about this subject please post it. Thank you much.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2432282807
i went to their website(http://www.deadboltspeed.com/index2.html) to learn more about- but i still have a couple of questions for any one that knows about it. For one how does will it effect the durability of the turbo? Also how does it affect mid range and top end? What is the max hp that can be produced from doing this? And finally would it be a good idea to port a aftermarket turbo?
Also if anyone has any kind of information about this subject please post it. Thank you much.
09-19-2003, 04:51 AM
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Send an email to jerry (aka deadbolt) he is a great guy to work with. He will answer any of your questions and work WITH you to achive your goals.
DeadBolt@aol.com
DeadBolt@aol.com
09-19-2003, 11:05 AM
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funny, i was actually just looking into the same thing. i sent Jerry an email last night, and there was a response waiting for me this morning.
there is a lot of talk on the other board about people getting their TD04s and VF series turbos ported. right now, i'm debating between a ported VF24 and a ported stock turbo. i'd really like to not have to do too many other modifications at the same time to support the change, but i'm concerned that i'll need to in order to safely run the VF24.
there is a lot of talk on the other board about people getting their TD04s and VF series turbos ported. right now, i'm debating between a ported VF24 and a ported stock turbo. i'd really like to not have to do too many other modifications at the same time to support the change, but i'm concerned that i'll need to in order to safely run the VF24.
09-20-2003, 10:33 PM
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That is a very bad idea to do. You really don't want to mess with anything on the turbo. When designing the whole turbo, there are extremely strict tollerances that have to be met. All it would take is a slight misbalance done on the compressor wheel, for instance, and everything would be thrown out of balance. These guys spin at incredible rpm's (100,000 rpm's for instance!!). Without getting really technical, all I can say is, spend your money elsewhere.
09-20-2003, 10:58 PM
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my understanding is that unless you specifically request modifications to the compressor wheel, it's left alone when the turbo is ported.
what is touched however, is the inlet that feeds the compressor wheel. smoothing the air flow coming into the turbo, you can use the flow more efficiently thereby generating boost at lower RPMs. it's not a rotating mass, and it's not a place where there are clearance issues with a rotating mass, so i don't quite see what the trouble would be.
oh, and feel free to get really technical, i haven't geeked out for a while -- it might do me some good.
what is touched however, is the inlet that feeds the compressor wheel. smoothing the air flow coming into the turbo, you can use the flow more efficiently thereby generating boost at lower RPMs. it's not a rotating mass, and it's not a place where there are clearance issues with a rotating mass, so i don't quite see what the trouble would be.
oh, and feel free to get really technical, i haven't geeked out for a while -- it might do me some good.
09-21-2003, 12:41 PM
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I have a hard time typing and getting my point across. I'm not saying they suck or whatever, maybe they discovered something new, I don't know. From what I know, it is a bad idea to mess around with the turbo in any way. Porting and polishing, for instance, won't really do anything for you here to increase flow. One thing that sometime happens during the process is you get a 'capillary action' happening that acutally makes flow worse. I got a second opinion from a friend of mine who is a design engineer for Garrett Boosting and he also says this is a bad idea. The first thing he mentioned right off the bat was the porting part will decrease the wall thickness of the turbo housing. He was telling me about how he has watched turbos explode during testing because the housing was too thin. The other thing he also mentioned was about how much gain you would really get out of this. All you are really changing is the trim and you will not gain much out of this. He was explaining that the biggest way to gain power is to change the A/R, but then you mine as well just get a new turbo if you do that. The bottom line is that everything in a turbo is properlly matched to work together for both longevity and performance. It would be interesting to see some dyno charts where both stock and their porting is pitted against one another.
09-21-2003, 09:28 PM
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What you've just said is very true if the porting is done incorrectly. Porting the turbo takes off a minute amount of metal, and smooths the air more than increasing actual flow volume. We've ported more than 30 turbos, none having problems with exploding. Only one performed worse afterwards, due to an incorrect amount of slathing on one wall. (Our second port job, which was done really poorly, OOPS!) The biggest gains were realized on TD04 and TD05 housings, which have sharp inlets, in contrast to the smooth inlets on higher end turbos. Stock turbos are designed with one thing in mind: low production cost. The flow of air is not aimed at the outside edge of the wheel where it is most efficient. Higher top end efficiency can be achieved with almost identical air volume just by smoothing the air and pointing it right at the fat area of the wheel blades. Many high flow turbos (FP green, and some turbonetics) are shipped pre-ported. Now if you're running big boost on a big turbo at maximum efficiency with 3" or bigger piping, porting would probably be a bad idea, but on a TD04 or TD05, it has netted us noticably better top end without more lag in the low end. In my personal experience, porting the wastegate bypass has also helped prevent dangerous boost spiking, as it increases surface area while providing a smoother pressure reading.
Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I truly believe a correct port is one of the best bang-buck mods you can make. Oh, and you might as well polish the housing while you got it out
Just took pics of my car today with my digi camera phone. Hope you guys likey
Here's the forum reference
i-Club -- Forums > Performance Forums > Aftermarket Turbo > Who has turbo'd an EJ22?
7
Sorry if I rambled a bit, but I truly believe a correct port is one of the best bang-buck mods you can make. Oh, and you might as well polish the housing while you got it out
Just took pics of my car today with my digi camera phone. Hope you guys likeyHere's the forum reference
i-Club -- Forums > Performance Forums > Aftermarket Turbo > Who has turbo'd an EJ22?
7
Last edited by impreza7; 09-21-2003 at 09:31 PM.
09-21-2003, 10:11 PM
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impreza7, who do you work for/with? from what you've described, it seems to me that you are in the tubo porting business -- i don't suppose you'd mind identifying yourself if that's the case? thanks.
09-22-2003, 11:44 AM
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jerry of deadbolt is incidentally also a moderator at nasioc. there was much discussion on nasioc about his work and many are running his monster td04's. i think somoene posted charts as well but i don't have the time to do a search right now for it (work)...
i miss the days when there was just one forum
i miss the days when there was just one forum
Last edited by Benjamin Tang; 09-22-2003 at 11:52 AM.
09-22-2003, 12:55 PM
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No Prob, Dropkick
I work with SBR, Speed Brothers Racing based out of Fort Collins, CO. We're very small, and I just go in and help out when I have free time from my real job. We do most of our work on DSM drag cars, so I'm still learning when it comes to Subaru system specifics. If there's one thing I know better than all else, however, it's probably turbos. You guys can pm with turbo related question if you'd like.
Cool chart, by the way.
I work with SBR, Speed Brothers Racing based out of Fort Collins, CO. We're very small, and I just go in and help out when I have free time from my real job. We do most of our work on DSM drag cars, so I'm still learning when it comes to Subaru system specifics. If there's one thing I know better than all else, however, it's probably turbos. You guys can pm with turbo related question if you'd like.
Cool chart, by the way.
09-22-2003, 01:16 PM
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No problem Impreza7, I believe you. I'm sure it works, I was just putting in my half cent (all it is every worth anyways). I'm just one to look between the lines and the small details. I like to see and read about things before actually doing it. I've have just read and seen what can happen when bad things are done to a turbo. I didn't know you worked for them or I wouldn't of said anything...I don't want to be of any cause of someone losing business.
Thanks for telling me what you know, by the way.
Thanks for telling me what you know, by the way.
09-22-2003, 02:35 PM
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impreza7, thanks for introducing yourself.
a dyno chart would be nice, but this is what Jerry from Deadbolt sent me when i asked for a dyno chart. it does show the turo spooling significantly quicker than the stock TD04. from what i can tell, the turbo reaches peak boost roughly 700-800 rpm sooner than the stage 2 WRX it's being compared to. it doesn't appear to make more boost than the stocker, it just comes on faster, which makes sense to me.
just looking at the chart, it would appear to me that the turbo would behave much like the stocker at high RPMs. instead of adding top end power, it just makes the effective powerband of the car wider by about 1k RPM.
a dyno chart would be nice, but this is what Jerry from Deadbolt sent me when i asked for a dyno chart. it does show the turo spooling significantly quicker than the stock TD04. from what i can tell, the turbo reaches peak boost roughly 700-800 rpm sooner than the stage 2 WRX it's being compared to. it doesn't appear to make more boost than the stocker, it just comes on faster, which makes sense to me.
just looking at the chart, it would appear to me that the turbo would behave much like the stocker at high RPMs. instead of adding top end power, it just makes the effective powerband of the car wider by about 1k RPM.