porkchop

where did I say that?

let me try to explain again...

lets say the maf see 50 parts of air that needs 50part of fuel to go along with it...

the atmo bov release 25 parts of air leaving 25 remaining in the intercooler...

since it's already past the MAF, the 50 part of fuel is still calculated for the 50 part of air, but since 25 have been released by the atmo bov, the remainder 25 part of air is still going to mix with 50 part of fuel.

it doesn't add additional fuel because it's been calculated...

I'm running a vf34, fp, pinks, atmo bov, front mount, TBE, header and etc.. I still get close to 300miles per tank....

ride5000

ok. stop right there. i totally agree with the above.

where DID the 25 parts of air USE to go? back into the inlet pipe. we will call this scenario A.

now with the VTA BOV, where does it go? into the atmosphere. we will call this scenario B.

we both agree on this. i agree that the exact same amount of fuel has been injected in both A and B. so let's move on to the next frame of reference...

we start applying throttle again.

now, the inlet pipe in scenario A has 25 more parts of air than does the inlet pipe in scenario B. the engine is demanding air. where does it source the extra 25 parts of air?

through the air filter, and past the MAF sensor. the MAF sensor reports the extra air to the ECU, which delivers a correspondingly higher IDC to deliver it.

THERE is your extra fuel consumption and extra air filter usage, because you are pumping air past the filter, past the MAF and out into the atmospere.

ken

porkchop

The air that is in scenario A is pipped back AFTER the maf, it's already calculated into the system by the previous pass through the MAF..

in scenario B, the engine demands air, so it's sucked through the MAF re-calculated again. There is no extra fuel consumption.

ride5000

yep.

yep.

this is my last post on this matter.

you yourself admit that air is being sucked through the maf--air that would NOT be sucked in had the BPV recirculated--and you go on to say that this will not affect fueling?

if you cannot see the obvious flaws in your reasoning then good luck.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like a leak, either a leaking bov or leak somewhere else. This would cause you to run richer AFR's than expected thus using more fuel to move the same if that makes sense to you.

Mike

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

You don't make sense I'm afraid.

The metering of airflow is all done prior to the inlet so regardless of amounts of air in the inlet the fuel delivery will be per the amount of metered air at the MAF. If some of that air does not arrive as expected (VTA bov or leak) then the engine will operate richer at that point, in a VTA's case at the shift point (typically not enough to make fuel economy bad), in a leak's case most of the time on the throttle worsening as you increase towards WOT.

Mike

zumnwrx

iTrader: (6)

omg i cant believe im reading this... and people are RE EXPLAINING THEMSELFS

ride5000 just feel lucky tommah hasn’t administered a e-wipN
edgar ,

dr3d1zzl3

iTrader: (1)

i will

your a ****ing douche go away..

maybe read a few technical manuals.. then come back and act like you know wtf you are talking about.

hugs and kisses

dre

BlueREX04

Actually it makes perfect sence... I made a gasket lastnight and put it between my bov and my $20 short ram intake (between the MAF and the intake housing) , first no cel after 50 miles and no loss of power between shifts, and no lag. for info I used NEA Gasket Material part # 10759

Thanks Mike

ride5000

good god.

i can't believe the whole lot of you don't see the point.

the recirc valve PUTS THE AIR BACK INTO THE INLET PIPE.

the vta does not.

where do you think the compressor of the turbo gets the air THAT IS NOT PUT BACK INTO THE INLET PIPE from?

from the air filter, and past maf sensor.

again, air that USED TO BE IN THE INLET PIPE is no longer there.

the compressor is sucking in air.

the compressor will source it through the air filter and past the maf sensor.

your reasoning as to why the car runs rich at the tailpipe is there's less air going into the engine because it's "lost" by the VTA. you think a VTA will cause less air to enter the combustion chamber? give me a break. the cylinders will draw in whatever air they need, VTA, or non VTA, or no valve at all.

the difference is that the cylinders have to suck that air that WOULD HAVE BEEN RECIRCULATED through the filter and maf sensor.

hello running rich. hello decreased air filter longevity. hello decreased MPG.

you think i'm in left field?

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....70&postcount=6
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....1&postcount=27
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....1&postcount=37
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....0&postcount=40
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....8&postcount=59
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....4&postcount=70
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....0&postcount=26
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....5&postcount=64
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....5&postcount=83
http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....&postcount=133
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...83&postcount=1
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...9&postcount=13
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&postcount=16
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...17&postcount=6
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...21&postcount=4
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showpo...64&postcount=4
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showpo...1&postcount=12
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showpo...52&postcount=8
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showpo...43&postcount=1
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showpo...97&postcount=5

that's all i'm going to waste time collecting.

chew on those for a while and come back and tell me i have no idea of what i'm talking about.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

You my friend owe me a new monitor, I just lost my coffee over mine.

The car does not add air due to a VTA it simply has more fuel due to the metered air not being present at the point of VTA, the people having problems at throttle tip in with VTA bov's typically don't have the correct spring rate in the valve thus it's leaking (that is a seperate issue)

The above being said and your inability to understand these threads is proven simply by you beating a dead horse when the original posters question has been answered and his car fixed, it was a leak plain and simple!

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

You miss the point, the turbo has already seen that air as has the MAF the problem is not that the turbo needs to pull more air to account for it being VTA but more that the ECU calculated it's fuel delivery for that amount of air. With the air not being present the same amount of fuel is delivered as if it was present only now there is too much fuel and not enough air hence the rich at the point of VTA.

Does that make sense?

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

It's not a matter of pulling extra gas into the engine per cylce. It's a matter of having to run more cycles because each one is less efficient. If you run rich (by having less air, not more gas as other people have tried to explain to you), you also are being less efficient (wasting unburnt gas). That means that the engine has to have more gas go through it to get the same amount of power, and that leads to lower mpg. But the ecu never gives 'too much gas', the engine just receives too little air.


Porkchop and UK are right about the bov's and what they do to the engine.

ride5000

fine. everyone who notices decreased milage--including myself--are wrong.

everyone in those posts i've scraped up is wrong.

and YOU guys are right.

ha! this thread is a joke.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

I agree it's made me laugh too!!

You might try checking to see if the bov is leaking that your using.