How much PSI can the WRX Take
05-18-2003, 06:49 PM
#31
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This thread is useless. Everyone that has no idea of the actual answer should keep quiet. All your doing is adding clutter to this list.
Boost level is not the issue here. Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER. There is a point at which the pistons will break or the sealing ability of the cylinder or the connecting rod will give way....
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve. It simply will not support enough HP.
Nick
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
Boost level is not the issue here. Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER. There is a point at which the pistons will break or the sealing ability of the cylinder or the connecting rod will give way....
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve. It simply will not support enough HP.
Nick
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
05-19-2003, 02:22 AM
#32
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Did you get all that BAN SUVS? Nicholas B is right which makes me partially right. So next time you want to try to make someone look dumb you should know what YOU are talking about. Maybe I should be the moderator here. Just dont try to make me look like a jackass again. You are not a WRX god or nothing so dont try to be.
05-19-2003, 10:33 AM
#33
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Car Info: 05 WRB STi
Not trying PO anyone here just got a question...
Accroding to Nicholas B I can turn the boost up all the way on my stock turbo and nothing will happen, just my turbos life will be shortened greatly?
Now what I would want to know is how much PSI the stock internals can hold? How much PSI before I start having to change fuel injectors and such. Or would that not be an issue seeing that you have to worry about HP before PSI and that if you take care of your engine and not, uh, over HP it then you shouldnt have to worry about overboosting?
Accroding to Nicholas B I can turn the boost up all the way on my stock turbo and nothing will happen, just my turbos life will be shortened greatly?
Now what I would want to know is how much PSI the stock internals can hold? How much PSI before I start having to change fuel injectors and such. Or would that not be an issue seeing that you have to worry about HP before PSI and that if you take care of your engine and not, uh, over HP it then you shouldnt have to worry about overboosting?
05-19-2003, 01:22 PM
#35
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I have a GMC Syclone with a 4.3L turbo. It has the stock turbo with stock internals. With proper fueling and cool weather, I run 18psi. The turbo on there is small for the engine and is not very efficient. At 20psi the truck slows way down. Intake air heats up and detonation becomes a problem. I monitor everything with a laptop program. Some guys run 22psi with a bigger turbo on stock internals. I think my stock WRX motor is built much better that my stock 4.3L. Boost alone does not kill a motor. Pistons fail with detonation which can be avioded with proper fuel and timing curves, as previously mentioned. All lower end components will fail with hp. Everything has a limit. HP is relative weather boosted or not.
Hook up Delta Dash and see how far you can push it. Better yet, ask one of the tuners. There are so many excellent tuners in the aftermarket for these cars. That will end this discussion.
Hook up Delta Dash and see how far you can push it. Better yet, ask one of the tuners. There are so many excellent tuners in the aftermarket for these cars. That will end this discussion.
05-19-2003, 01:25 PM
#36
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Originally posted by Nicholas B.
Boost level is not the issue here.
Boost level is not the issue here.
Originally posted by Nicholas B.
Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER.
Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER.
Originally posted by Nicholas B.
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
Originally posted by Nicholas B.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve.
Originally posted by Nicholas B.
It simply will not support enough HP.
It simply will not support enough HP.
Originally posted by Nicholas B.
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
Originally posted by natedizzel
Did you get all that BAN SUVS? Nicholas B is right which makes me partially right. So next time you want to try to make someone look dumb you should know what YOU are talking about. Maybe I should be the moderator here. Just dont try to make me look like a jackass again. You are not a WRX god or nothing so dont try to be.
Did you get all that BAN SUVS? Nicholas B is right which makes me partially right. So next time you want to try to make someone look dumb you should know what YOU are talking about. Maybe I should be the moderator here. Just dont try to make me look like a jackass again. You are not a WRX god or nothing so dont try to be.
But I don't see where I made anybody look bad on this thread. I may occasionally lack perfect tact when pointing out incorrect statements, but hey, I'm a car geek, not a diplomat. That's why I learned how and when to say 'I'm sorry.'
I'm not trying to be a 'WRX god.' In fact, I don't even own one. But engines are engines. See my next post for reasons why I say the things I say on technical issues.
Last edited by Kevin M; 05-19-2003 at 01:37 PM.
05-19-2003, 01:35 PM
#37
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Originally posted by WRX-pilot
Not trying PO anyone here just got a question...
Accroding to Nicholas B I can turn the boost up all the way on my stock turbo and nothing will happen, just my turbos life will be shortened greatly?
Now what I would want to know is how much PSI the stock internals can hold? How much PSI before I start having to change fuel injectors and such. Or would that not be an issue seeing that you have to worry about HP before PSI and that if you take care of your engine and not, uh, over HP it then you shouldnt have to worry about overboosting?
Not trying PO anyone here just got a question...
Accroding to Nicholas B I can turn the boost up all the way on my stock turbo and nothing will happen, just my turbos life will be shortened greatly?
Now what I would want to know is how much PSI the stock internals can hold? How much PSI before I start having to change fuel injectors and such. Or would that not be an issue seeing that you have to worry about HP before PSI and that if you take care of your engine and not, uh, over HP it then you shouldnt have to worry about overboosting?
Ok, here's the deal- want more power? You don't need more boost. It's more effective, meaning your car gets faster, to make other changes that use stock (or ok, maybe slightly more, like .5-1 psi more) to make 260-270 hp at the crank. That is the practical limit of the turbocharger your car came with. The reason 'cranking up the boost' doesn't work too well is becuase of thermal efficiency. Your turbo is happiest flowing a specific amount of air at a given turbine rpm (that is, the speed the tines are spinning, not the motor). By raising boost, you shift this curve away from the part where the compressor discharge is coolest- which means densest, and densest means more powerful. If you increase the volume of air (and therefore the potential power) by 15% with boost, but it's 10% less dense due to being hotter, you haven't done a lot. But that's not really the issue- I'd take a free 5% bump in power, right? But when you increase the boost, the intake charge gets hotter, which leads to detonation, and THAT is public enemy number 1 in a turbocharged motor. How do you get rid of the detonation? By retarding timing- which reduces power. Net effect, very minor gains at the expense of a less reliable engine. It's even possible to have a slower car by turning up the boost without other mods because of this. But that isn't the heart of your queston I think.
How much boost can the internals take? A lot. You can switch to a VF30, bigger injectors, Link/Xede/UTEC whatever, and make TONS of power without cracking open the block for different internals. It's all in how you manage the power you have, rather than strictly how much it is making. If you get the chance, hang out at Vishnu or I-Speed or MPJ Performance, you'll hear all these things being discussed.
Last edited by Kevin M; 05-20-2003 at 08:19 AM.
05-19-2003, 01:39 PM
#38
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Originally posted by axxe
I have a GMC Syclone with a 4.3L turbo. It has the stock turbo with stock internals. With proper fueling and cool weather, I run 18psi. The turbo on there is small for the engine and is not very efficient. At 20psi the truck slows way down. Intake air heats up and detonation becomes a problem. I monitor everything with a laptop program. Some guys run 22psi with a bigger turbo on stock internals. I think my stock WRX motor is built much better that my stock 4.3L. Boost alone does not kill a motor. Pistons fail with detonation which can be avioded with proper fuel and timing curves, as previously mentioned. All lower end components will fail with hp. Everything has a limit. HP is relative weather boosted or not.
Hook up Delta Dash and see how far you can push it. Better yet, ask one of the tuners. There are so many excellent tuners in the aftermarket for these cars. That will end this discussion.
I have a GMC Syclone with a 4.3L turbo. It has the stock turbo with stock internals. With proper fueling and cool weather, I run 18psi. The turbo on there is small for the engine and is not very efficient. At 20psi the truck slows way down. Intake air heats up and detonation becomes a problem. I monitor everything with a laptop program. Some guys run 22psi with a bigger turbo on stock internals. I think my stock WRX motor is built much better that my stock 4.3L. Boost alone does not kill a motor. Pistons fail with detonation which can be avioded with proper fuel and timing curves, as previously mentioned. All lower end components will fail with hp. Everything has a limit. HP is relative weather boosted or not.
Hook up Delta Dash and see how far you can push it. Better yet, ask one of the tuners. There are so many excellent tuners in the aftermarket for these cars. That will end this discussion.
05-19-2003, 04:33 PM
#39
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Here's a tip for all of you... And i swear, dammit, read this please:
THE STOCK TURBO CAN AND SHOULD ONLY BE SET UP TO 16PSI (SET IN GEARS 3, 4 or 5), FOR EFFICIENCY, AND WITH THE LEAST POSSIBLITY FOR DETONATION....
BAN SUVS is 100% correct. Detonation is what will blow your motor... And boosting over 16 psi GREATLY increases your chances to detonating...
Don't believe us? Fine.... But don't come back asking how to **** Subaru over with a false warranty claim when you didn't listen...
-Gagan
Last edited by joltdudeuc; 05-19-2003 at 04:35 PM.
05-19-2003, 04:58 PM
#40
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Originally posted by Nicholas B.
This thread is useless. Everyone that has no idea of the actual answer should keep quiet. All your doing is adding clutter to this list.
Boost level is not the issue here. Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER. There is a point at which the pistons will break or the sealing ability of the cylinder or the connecting rod will give way....
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve. It simply will not support enough HP.
Nick
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
This thread is useless. Everyone that has no idea of the actual answer should keep quiet. All your doing is adding clutter to this list.
Boost level is not the issue here. Its all a matter of how much HORSE POWER. There is a point at which the pistons will break or the sealing ability of the cylinder or the connecting rod will give way....
Your boost level has nothing to do with any of this, not directly anyway.
There is no way you can break the motor with a stock turbo as long as you have the proper fuel curve and ignition curve. It simply will not support enough HP.
Nick
PS if anyone wants to flame at me for my statements then I will along with all my years of expereince with Turbo cars, so think before you type.
Ok, Mr Turbo, we don't drive E46 M3s here, our Rods aren't weak, and they aren't going to break on a Stock turbo...
However, run more than 16psi, and you run into the high probability of pinging... boom boom boom, POW... and there goes your motor... Heck, yeah, maybe even your rod... but it's not cause you have 260hp at the crank now, it's cause the air coming in is too hot, and you don't have the right ability to keep the temps down inside the cylinders... Burns too quick, just too damn lean...
-Gagan
05-19-2003, 10:42 PM
#41
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Originally posted by BAN SUVS
:::deep breath:::
Ok, here's the deal- want more....you'll hear all these things being discussed.
:::deep breath:::
Ok, here's the deal- want more....you'll hear all these things being discussed.
05-20-2003, 08:22 AM
#42
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Originally posted by WRX-pilot
very understandable, readable and thorough. Thank you for spending the time to explain and back it up.
very understandable, readable and thorough. Thank you for spending the time to explain and back it up.
05-20-2003, 02:42 PM
#45
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Originally posted by axxe
This thread is going nowhere. Someone go buy a Delta Dash and a manual boost controller and end this.
This thread is going nowhere. Someone go buy a Delta Dash and a manual boost controller and end this.
;Hrqgft
os;FHaw
^This is me pounding my head on the keyboard. The question was answered. The stock block and internals can handle more boost than the stock turbo can SAFELY make. The engine is not the limitation on boost, the management, turbo, and fuel system are. With the right setup you can make 20+ psi of boost on stock internals. With crappy management, you can't handle 16. End of story. Just for the record, the only way the Delta Dash + MBC method you just described would provide the answer is by blowing up an engine.
Last edited by Kevin M; 05-20-2003 at 03:24 PM.