Engine/Power - EJ20T (pre-2006 WRX and JDM) There is replacement for displacement, it is forced induction - OEM 2.0 liter turbo engines in the USDM WRX. 90-94 Legacy Turbo EJ22 turbo engines can also be discussed here.

2.0 - 2.5 swap

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Old 02-14-2011 | 01:23 AM
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2.0 - 2.5 swap

I was talking to the guy delivering my pizza today who had this swap done by GST but he said he didnt change his ecu or wiring because he used a 2.5l block with the 2.0 heads.

Is that pretty much all thats needed for the swap? I was under the impression that you would need ecu/wiring/tune. If thats all thats needed, Im definitely gonna have to go the hybrid route.
Old 02-14-2011 | 01:40 AM
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thats sounds about right for a hybrid swap...
Old 02-14-2011 | 01:54 AM
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You will need to do something to lower the compression. Like custom pistons or thicker headgaskets. You will also need a custom tune.
Old 02-14-2011 | 02:21 AM
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That's only if you are going for big power. There are plenty of high compression hybrids driving around without problems.

Its not even an issue with high compression. The issue is the edge of metal on the head that gets super-heated durring high boost, and can cause (bad) knock. Even with a thicker headgasket that edge is still there, so it just takes longer for knock to start happening. The problem doesn't get fixed that way, its a band-aid. The real fix is to have a machine shop open the cumbustion chamers to the size of the 2.5 headgasket.

Or you can get a Cosworth cam sensor holder and lock out AVCS and use a whole STi engine. Probably the easiest way of doing it.
Old 02-14-2011 | 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jdblock
That's only if you are going for big power. There are plenty of high compression hybrids driving around without problems.

Its not even an issue with high compression. The issue is the edge of metal on the head that gets super-heated durring high boost, and can cause (bad) knock. Even with a thicker headgasket that edge is still there, so it just takes longer for knock to start happening. The problem doesn't get fixed that way, its a band-aid. The real fix is to have a machine shop open the cumbustion chamers to the size of the 2.5 headgasket.

Or you can get a Cosworth cam sensor holder and lock out AVCS and use a whole STi engine. Probably the easiest way of doing it.

That's exactly correct. We worked with our machine shop to develope a CNC program to machine the STI combustion chamber into the 2.0 head. This has worked very well for the hybrid setups and now we do this service for customers all around the country.

Thanks
-- Ed
Old 02-14-2011 | 10:51 AM
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There are several options available to build a "correct" hybrid set up.

You can machine the head's combustion chamber, like Larry's Power:



or use custom pistons, like this:



or use thicker head gaskets.
It just depends on your budget.
Old 02-14-2011 | 11:04 AM
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I always wondered, does the shape of the top of the piston (all have different indents) I'm just curious if they make a difference or is it just for weight/balance?
Old 02-14-2011 | 11:11 AM
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so pnp the heads, get better cams and that should do it. what about the tune? the guy i talked to told me he didnt get one for the swap.

i find that pretty hard to believe or is it possible to get away with the stock tune if you just throw the heads on there without changing anything?
Old 02-14-2011 | 11:37 AM
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You will need a tune, and I would throw in some pistons if you plan on upgrading the turbo. You dont have to but while the motor is out why not. I would also throw in some cosworth 272's while youre at it just for good measure.....
Old 02-14-2011 | 11:42 AM
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I was considering doing a 2.5 swap on my old wrx but decided it was a better idea to sell the wrx and buy a used STi.
Old 02-14-2011 | 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Shayhan27
You will need a tune, and I would throw in some pistons if you plan on upgrading the turbo. You dont have to but while the motor is out why not. I would also throw in some cosworth 272's while youre at it just for good measure.....
If I end up going this route I will likely build the block on up.

Originally Posted by subie OCD
I was considering doing a 2.5 swap on my old wrx but decided it was a better idea to sell the wrx and buy a used STi.
STIs are pretty expensive plus Im not sure what it would do to my insurance. I've got about 5k + time invested in my car so far so this seems like more bang for the buck.
Old 02-14-2011 | 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
There are several options available to build a "correct" hybrid set up.

You can machine the head's combustion chamber, like Larry's Power:

or use custom pistons, like this:

or use thicker head gaskets.
It just depends on your budget.
How does the custom piston or thicker gasket solve the issue of having the edges of the combustion chamber protruding into the bore? The latter two options you mention only effect the resulting compression ratio but do nothing about the hot spots that cause knock.

I'm not quite sure what that video is showing either. Looks like it's just opening the outer bore, but not reshaping the chamber at all to match the larger bore. You need a CNC machine for that.

-- Ed

Last edited by EQ Tuning; 02-14-2011 at 01:07 PM.
Old 02-14-2011 | 01:10 PM
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Here is the writeup from our CNC combustion chamber program including pictures of the process and full explanation:

We are excited to announce that we have a great new option for the 2.0/2.5 hybrid folks! As most people know, when you run a 2.5l shortblock with 2.0l heads, the compression ratio is too high to run safely and efficiently. The common approach to resolve this is to use a thicker head gasket to try to bring the compression ratio down. While this can bring the overall compression ratio down, it is by no means ideal. The resulting combustion chamber shape remains inefficient since you're leaving the 2.0l chamber in the heads untouched. You are in essence reducing the effectiveness of the quench area and introducing several sharp edges to the combustion chamber that can build up heat and cause knock. This makes the engine less efficient than a full EJ257 with EJ257 heads.

Instead of using a thicker head gasket, we decided to try something a bit different. We worked closely with our machine shop to actually map out the combustion chamber of the EJ257 STI head and create a CNC program to replicate the exact same chamber every time. Using this program, we then set up the 2.0l head castings in the CNC and machine out an exact copy of the 2.5l combustion chamber into each 2.0l head casting. We are then able to use a quality OEM head gasket and maintain the exact compression ratio of a complete STI engine. This improves the effectiveness of the quench area and the overall efficiency of the engine because you now have the exact same combustion chamber as a full EJ257.

We have done many hybrid builds with this approach now and have seen great results not only in overall power output, but especially in terms of crisp, smooth off-boost drivability and torque. We've also seen a significant increase in fuel economy as compared to a standard hybrid build. From a tuning standpoint, the difference is so significant that we had to spend quite a bit of time building new base maps for these builds. Under low load conditions, these setups can run as much as 15-20 degrees more timing advance than a hybrid build with a thicker head gasket. This was a great thing to see as we end up with a timing curve much more similar to an STI rather than a 2.0l WRX.

This service is available for any EJ205 and EJ207 heads.

Here are some pictures of the process:








And final product:



We've done about 50 sets of heads now for our own customers as well as customers and other shops all around the country. All of the feedback has been spectacular, and the tuners especially are loving how these perform compared to the other hybrid options.

Thanks
-- Ed

Last edited by EQ Tuning; 02-14-2011 at 01:12 PM.
Old 02-14-2011 | 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by brucelee
I always wondered, does the shape of the top of the piston (all have different indents) I'm just curious if they make a difference or is it just for weight/balance?
The shape of the top of the piston mainly has to do with valve clearance and compression ratio. The other factor is quench area which helps produce a more efficient burn.

-- Ed
Old 02-14-2011 | 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wrxBRAH
so pnp the heads, get better cams and that should do it. what about the tune? the guy i talked to told me he didnt get one for the swap.

i find that pretty hard to believe or is it possible to get away with the stock tune if you just throw the heads on there without changing anything?
You definitely need to get a tune for a hybrid setup! The correct ignition curve is VERY different from that of a 2.0l.

-- Ed



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