Questions about UTEC boost levels
05-14-2003, 12:18 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
Questions about UTEC boost levels
Hello all. Today I got my WRX back from the installation work I had done. I already had a GFB BOV, a unifilter CAI and a hood scoop...oh and the OEM boost gauge. Oh yeah and its a 4EAT 2002 model with 9000 miles on it. I also had Greddy EGT and A/F gauges installed. The EGT works great....the A/F...will thats a nightmare really....that could be another post. Anyone ever work with one?
Ok so today I had a Greddy evo catback installed (love it), an up-pipe and the turboxs UTEC stage I. The car drives well and the boost comes on earlier. That seems to be the biggest thing I notice...pre-boost the car is quicker. Before the UTEC in a second gear pull at WOT the boost guage would read about .095 MPa. I was expecting to see at least .1 or .105 with the UTEC. It seems I'm reading less than I was before! I thought that maybe it was because the max boost was at 4000 rpm so I missed the gauge reading. Then I read about the ABC in the manual. I don't know if the subaru tech did anything with it. Should I open it a turn? The car runs great, but it doesn't feel THAT much faster. I mean not like 45 horse power faster. But then again I've never had a car as fast as a WRX, or added parts to a car either. Just wondering if anyone can help me out. Thanks and I look forward to your input.
Ok so today I had a Greddy evo catback installed (love it), an up-pipe and the turboxs UTEC stage I. The car drives well and the boost comes on earlier. That seems to be the biggest thing I notice...pre-boost the car is quicker. Before the UTEC in a second gear pull at WOT the boost guage would read about .095 MPa. I was expecting to see at least .1 or .105 with the UTEC. It seems I'm reading less than I was before! I thought that maybe it was because the max boost was at 4000 rpm so I missed the gauge reading. Then I read about the ABC in the manual. I don't know if the subaru tech did anything with it. Should I open it a turn? The car runs great, but it doesn't feel THAT much faster. I mean not like 45 horse power faster. But then again I've never had a car as fast as a WRX, or added parts to a car either. Just wondering if anyone can help me out. Thanks and I look forward to your input.
05-14-2003, 12:16 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
Yes I've read some of the manual that where I realized things might need to be adjusted. The boost levels for stage 1 are
4000 rpm-----16.1psi (I'm not reading even close on the gauge)
5500 rpm-----15 psi
6000 rpm-----12.5 psi
7000 rpm-----12 psi
Today I hit like .095 in second. Ok since the manual says "open loop boost control" is the default mode I would assume I'm in that mode. Also I was looking for the ABC under the hood, I found it tie wrapped to a hose. I'm assuming the silver piece that says turboxs is the ABC. I'm also going by the picture in the manual. How do you adjust the ABC. I was looking at it...with an allen wrench? Errr 2mm HEX key? The manual really doesn't mention it. Hopefully this info help.
4000 rpm-----16.1psi (I'm not reading even close on the gauge)
5500 rpm-----15 psi
6000 rpm-----12.5 psi
7000 rpm-----12 psi
Today I hit like .095 in second. Ok since the manual says "open loop boost control" is the default mode I would assume I'm in that mode. Also I was looking for the ABC under the hood, I found it tie wrapped to a hose. I'm assuming the silver piece that says turboxs is the ABC. I'm also going by the picture in the manual. How do you adjust the ABC. I was looking at it...with an allen wrench? Errr 2mm HEX key? The manual really doesn't mention it. Hopefully this info help.
05-14-2003, 03:54 PM
#6
VIP Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Lastweek Lane - Watertown, NY
Posts: 10,133
Car Info: 02WRXpseudoSTiWannabeWagon
In the 'special constants' section in the parameters, you can select 0 or 1 for open or closed.
Have you calibrated your throttle position sensor?
For someone, like myself, who didn't know anything at all about 'tuning yourself', the manual was hard to get to understand, so it will take some research and experimenting. In some cases, it tells you how to adjust parameters and settings, but it doesn't tell you why it's important. Those priorities are why you should scour the internet, i-club, nasioc, and wrxhackers for how-to information.
Have you calibrated your throttle position sensor?
For someone, like myself, who didn't know anything at all about 'tuning yourself', the manual was hard to get to understand, so it will take some research and experimenting. In some cases, it tells you how to adjust parameters and settings, but it doesn't tell you why it's important. Those priorities are why you should scour the internet, i-club, nasioc, and wrxhackers for how-to information.
05-15-2003, 04:50 AM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
The abc was closed all the way to the right. According to the installer it should have been set to the proper position, but was not. I have been making small adjustments using the hex key...turning it to the left. I'm almost up to .1 now...stock boost. the car keeps driving better. It even idles better. We'll see how it goes.
Also what is a good range for EGT? What would be a good warning value? thanks again
Also what is a good range for EGT? What would be a good warning value? thanks again
05-16-2003, 10:14 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
It sounds like we are pretty much in the same boat. I am just beginning to learn about tuning myself. I did learn today how to adjust the throttle position sensor. From what it sounds like you don't have a laptop. You can't adjust the TPS without a computer. That is probably not your biggest problem right now though. In order for me to get to where the Stage 1 chart you listed above said I should be, I had to turn the ABC 6 turns to the + boost side. I spoke to TurboXS today. They told me that 6 turns is not bad if you are running open loop, but they normally only run about 3 turns to the boost side in closed loop.
My quest now is to figure out what the difference between open and closed loop is, other than they are calibrated on different scales. Anyone have any insight on that? Or maybe a link to an explanation that a computer programmer could understand?
My quest now is to figure out what the difference between open and closed loop is, other than they are calibrated on different scales. Anyone have any insight on that? Or maybe a link to an explanation that a computer programmer could understand?
05-24-2003, 11:19 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Colsed loop mean that the ecu is taking reaading from the 02 sensor and trying to keep the af ratio as close to stoich as possible. Open loop is when the computer goes to it's default programing.(example: when you floor it thats open loop, cruising no load, thats closed loop) Hope this helps
Gregg
Gregg
05-25-2003, 08:22 AM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Gregg,
Ok, so if I understand correctly, since my UTEC is set to open loop, I am basically only using its boost map when I'm cruising, and all I have really done is increased my maximum boost level that the ECU can achieve with the ABC? So, any performance gains I’ve seen are from the UTEC’s timing and fuel map, in addition to the ABC?
Also in my last post I mentioned that I had the ABC opened 6 turns. This may be a little too much. I noticed the CEL flash about three times during 4th gear heavy acceleration this week.
Thanks for your help,
Steve
Ok, so if I understand correctly, since my UTEC is set to open loop, I am basically only using its boost map when I'm cruising, and all I have really done is increased my maximum boost level that the ECU can achieve with the ABC? So, any performance gains I’ve seen are from the UTEC’s timing and fuel map, in addition to the ABC?
Also in my last post I mentioned that I had the ABC opened 6 turns. This may be a little too much. I noticed the CEL flash about three times during 4th gear heavy acceleration this week.
Thanks for your help,
Steve
05-25-2003, 08:54 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have not tuned the utec(yet). I just bought my wrx but my 240 used to have a stand alone. If you can put the utec into open loop all the time, then it never takes readings from the 02 sensors it just goes off of the preset paramitors. As far as your ABC( I have no idea what abc means lol, I think your talking about some sort of a manual boost controller.) If you are then you probably have it up too high. Thats why your getting the cel.
So what I'm getting to is If the utec can never turn off closed loop then you need to have two boost settings one for closed loop and one for open loop. ALL CARS RUN OPEN LOOP WHEN BEING FLOORED THE SUBY IS NO EXECEPTION. I really need to read the utec manual to assist you any more. since I have no experience with this computer.
Oh as far as cruising thats when the car runs closed loop. IE to get the best fuel economy as possible.
Closed loop= reading from the 02 sensor 14:1 as much as possible
open loop= preset fuel settings, no 02 readings, usually around 10:1 ratio on the wrx(from waht I gathered.).
The factory ecu will run in and out of open loop and closed loop parameters.
Gregg
So what I'm getting to is If the utec can never turn off closed loop then you need to have two boost settings one for closed loop and one for open loop. ALL CARS RUN OPEN LOOP WHEN BEING FLOORED THE SUBY IS NO EXECEPTION. I really need to read the utec manual to assist you any more. since I have no experience with this computer.
Oh as far as cruising thats when the car runs closed loop. IE to get the best fuel economy as possible.
Closed loop= reading from the 02 sensor 14:1 as much as possible
open loop= preset fuel settings, no 02 readings, usually around 10:1 ratio on the wrx(from waht I gathered.).
The factory ecu will run in and out of open loop and closed loop parameters.
Gregg
Last edited by jdzumwalt; 05-25-2003 at 09:01 AM.
05-25-2003, 10:58 AM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Gregg - Youre getting yourself and him confused. They are talking about Open vs Closed Loop BOOST CONTROL. You're talking about open v closed loop fuel control.
Original poster - Open loop Boost Control (OLB) has a boost control solenoid duty cycle value in the UTEC map. This option will set the BCS duty cycle to a set percentage for the load range. This type of boost control is static, the BCS will have the duty cycle regardless of gear, altitude etc. Closed Loop Boost control (CLB) has a target value (0-500), and will adjust the BCS duty cycle to attempt to reach this value. Nobody except TXS knows what the 0-500 relate to exactly.
Most people eventually switch to CLB.
Original poster - Open loop Boost Control (OLB) has a boost control solenoid duty cycle value in the UTEC map. This option will set the BCS duty cycle to a set percentage for the load range. This type of boost control is static, the BCS will have the duty cycle regardless of gear, altitude etc. Closed Loop Boost control (CLB) has a target value (0-500), and will adjust the BCS duty cycle to attempt to reach this value. Nobody except TXS knows what the 0-500 relate to exactly.
Most people eventually switch to CLB.
05-25-2003, 10:32 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Strng1dah,
I’m not exactly sure that I understand completely, but I think that I have the general idea. It seems like closed loop is what I should be shooting for. I don’t really know how to begin though. Is it a safe assumption that I could take the values that are in the Stage 1 map and translate them to equivalent proportions on the 0-500 scale? For example if the value in open loop is 95, translate that to 475 on the closed loop map. I thought in a phone conversation with someone at TSX I remember them saying that they don’t recommend going over 400. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
I’m not exactly sure that I understand completely, but I think that I have the general idea. It seems like closed loop is what I should be shooting for. I don’t really know how to begin though. Is it a safe assumption that I could take the values that are in the Stage 1 map and translate them to equivalent proportions on the 0-500 scale? For example if the value in open loop is 95, translate that to 475 on the closed loop map. I thought in a phone conversation with someone at TSX I remember them saying that they don’t recommend going over 400. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve