AntsWRX

Has anyone ever read a car magazine around here??? In all the comparisons between WRX tuners that I've seen, Vishnu always seems to have the best performer, especially given the price at which the performance comes with. Granted, all the tuners mentioned have made improvements to their cars, but some of these companies have mods totalling $10,000 - $30,000. Vishnu's Stage 2 package is only about $4,500 and the performance has been proven car magazines that I trust. Don't believe a website, believe an independent testing source. And yes... I realize Shiv does work for SCC. I seen Vishnu's numbers in other magazines.

Jgrahn555

If you believe everything you read in those magazines is pure, unbiased truth, then you live a more simple life then I, my friend.

The proof is in the pudding, and when it comes to cars, pudding is ETs and lap times. Rigoli has 'em. TurboXS has 'em. Bushur has 'em. Cobb has 'em. Hell, MRT has their whole rally heritage! I will now pause for effect....

Vishu has dyno slips.

As far as I see it, discussion on this is over. You want to start an argument or debate thread over this, then feel free. But don't be dismayed, it is a new thread. Stick a fork in it BAN, this steak is done.

AntsWRX

So... what you're saying is to believe the people that are trying to sell you something by telling you how great their product is by posting timeslips on their website. Did you personally inspect the cars they did their testing with to see what they have done to the car other that what they're claiming? Were these cars that produced these "timeslips" and "laptimes" one-off cars? Were they daily drivers? Haven't you ever seen a stock car (any car) from the factory put up times in a test and then those times are never backed up by another car? You get the "oh, it was a pre-production model", or " it was just a strong car." Fact is that any tuner can claim anything they want and even back it up with some numbers. But are the numbers repeatable from car to car, are they modifications reliable, and are the mods a price worth their performance.

Jgrahn555

Just in case you forgot that whole "reading" thing they taught in school and how it applies to the internet, i'll repost what i just said:

AntsWRX

I'm sorry, who are you? I forgot the part where I was taking orders from you? Where was that in the directions to this thread? Next time I write anything I'll be sure to check with you first. Oh, by the way, it's past your bedtime. Go to bed now or no internet for you for a week.

Jgrahn555

You sure do get bent outta shape easy man. Chill out, it's just the internet.

I'm just curious at this point, where do you gather that it's past my bed time? Please explain and cite your resources.

E-thuggin for life, yo.

AntsWRX

Your profile says your're 23, yet you speak like you've been modding and racing cars for 30 years. I don't mind debating an issue with anybody, but I at least try to speak with some knowledge and experience. You just sound like you're mouthing off like you know something because you purchased and uppipe from TurboXS, so now your and authority on the subject.

As far as the bedtime thing goes, I just thought since you were giving orders it must be fun, so I'd try it out myself. Boy, do I feel pretty cool now...

Jgrahn555

Thank you for your response and interest in my post. I understand you are trying to say that I appear via the text that I type as though I am only paraphrasing things I may have heard from other people; potentially a "rice boy." If this is incorrect, please let me know.

You are correct, my profile says i'm 23, this is as close to fact as one can come. You mention that I speak like I've been modding and racing for 30 years. Numarically, this cannot be true.

I ask a question: would you agree that when a person is innundated with material to read, understand, memorize, repeat, and also to teach and show these learnings, then that person could be considered somewhat knowledgable on the subject?

So, for instance, if I (for example) have been innundated for the past 8 years with subaru material large and small, in theory and in form; and also have been innundated with turbocharger theory and application for the past 5, would you agree that potentially I may be knowledgable on said subjects?

Now if you were to approach a group of people with a subject, and that group of people had a person who is knowledgable on a subject in it, would you hope that said person would speak what they knew? Or would you hope that the knowledgable person did not speak until specifically spoken to?

Lets take that into context. We are confronted with the situation that someone is curious about a vehicle topic, specifically turbocharged subaru imprezas. A person knowledgable on the subject could either keep quiet and let the less knowledgable person destroy their car or that person could speak up and avoid a potentially dangerous situation. Which would you rather have?

I claim to have knowledge on the subject of subarus and tuning, both in their respective fields and also combined. While I will admit that I have done my fair share of work on vehicles to write a good sized resume if need be; I will not claim to be an expert as others do.

And yes you are cool. So am I, my mom told me that, right before she put my helmet on me and tucked me into bed.

Kevin M

iTrader: (12)

Up until this point Mr. Grahn, I have avoided taking part in this rather ridiculous thread because nobody in it has any direct experience with the tuners and products of which they speak. Furthermore, as I am quite publicly affiliated with Vishnu, I remained on the sidelines to avoid innappropriate discussions of other company's products.

I merely ask that all those involved do the same. Please kindly inform the readers of this thread which tuners and which companies with which you have close ties, so I don't have to. Thanks.

AntsWRX

Mr. Grahn,

Thank you for your reply. It was very well written and thought out. I appreciate your honesty and your explanation of your background. As I said earlier, I am willing (as anybody should be), to discuss and debate on most any topic. I only ask that someone not tell me when I have nothing more to say. It was uncalled for and unappreciated.

Be that as it may, I first subscribed to this thread to learn more of Vishnu's performance numbers. I agree with Silver Arrow - we should get back to the original topic.

Jgrahn555

Primtive Racing
Streben Enterprises
Griot's Garage
H&R Special Springs

If I've left anything out, please let me know, because i want a discount if i'm affiliated!

Jgrahn555

so continue the dialog that BAN has started, we'll need some more insight to conversations behind the scenes... After reading what BAN had posted above, i sent him the following message: There was no response 24 hours later, so I sent this: Apparently this was able to drudge up a response from BAN, as i received this a few hours later: Now i don't disagree with his last statement. One who has no experience should not share his lack there-of. But as the facts stand, i've spent more time in friendly conversation with you, kevin, then i have with him; which would make me more friendly with you (aside from this thread as it seems). What I DO disagree with is that you have started this drama by fingering me for playing espionage agent. I retort with this:
So a question must be asked, and this question is about conflicts of interest. I will ask it later in a different, more appropriate, thread and area of this forum when i have the time to type up my proposal.

Kevin M

iTrader: (12)

You deserve no apologies from me. All I asked for was a reasonable explanation of why you so enjoy disparaging Vishnu products. As a matter of routine, you consistently attempt to divert people from trying Vishnu products without ever presenting any solid reasons for it. "It's more expensive than it should be." "Shiv doesn't care about drag times." "I don't like the Xede." "Vendor X is better."

I have never made such statements without presenting factual evidence for doing so. As a moderator who is employed by a paid vendor, I generally avoid any discussion of competing vendor's products unless I have something concrete to say. I do not voice my opinion about any products but our own, and I do not believe that is a conflict of interest. In fact, you will notice once you search through my posts that I rarely even discuss our products except in response to direct questions.

You have not once, ever, in all of your bashing of your products presented any negative facts regarding their performance. Nothing but opinions and the same rubbish spouted on such constant basis by the vocal minority on Evolutionm.net, teamnabr.net, dsmtuners.com, etc. etc. None of which are communities noted for their championing of any tuner whose primary source of business is the WRX.

Nothing I have done is improper here. I have not:
*edited posts
*moved threads/posts
*deleted any posts/threads
*given warnings or timeouts
*I have not even so much as asked you not to recommend against Vishnu products

But to expect me to silently stand by while you become more and more vocal about how bad something is, while accusing me of improprieties is laughable. Do not present your opinion as indisputable fact. Merely presenting your opinion when the person posting the thread is asking for it is acceptable- badmouthing us without cause is not.

joltdudeuc

iTrader: (6)

J, STFU... You are a ****ing Moron.

You know why Shiv doesn't have a race car? Because he hasn't the time to have one. He hasn't the time to buy it, build it, race it... etc.

That man is so freaking busy, he DIDN'T want to go to SEMA, so he could work some more. His co-workers pushed him on a plane so he could go and relax, yet every day he was down there, he was calling back checking on things.

Now, I don't know how much ****ing R&D TXS and MRT can do, but when Shiv takes on a project, the man dissappears for 3 months. Sometimes, you'll see a WRX Wagon scoot around some back road. Or See the Red Evo 8 fly past you on the hwy at 130mph... and that's when you realize, what R&D really is. Every day, hours and hours of driving, and testing, and tuning, and logging. Changing parts, and doing it over and over again. AND THEN DOING A FINAL DYNO TUNE... to get that A/f Ratio set into a safe region, and to see what you've created.

Of the companies you've noted, I would only buy from MRT. However, there is one tuner you mentioned that I would like to agree with you on, and that's the Rigoli's. They are just freakin' dope, never met a nicer crowd of guys in this community to be honest.

So, hate Vishnu all you want, but isn't at the bottom of the ladder. I used to be a pretty big fan of UTEC, until Shiv showed me how much better the Xede is. Shiv is the best tuner in this country for subie tuning. His parts line up may not be the best, but i know his tuning at least is. If you don't care to accept that, at least accept and admit that he's up there, and can hold his own against any other tuner in this country.

-Gagan