Shifting...Am I too slow (old man style) Need advice
02-20-2004, 04:45 PM
#1
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Shifting...Am I too slow (old man style) Need advice
I have been watching some videos of in car dash cams on some cars, and some WRX's... When they shift say from 2nd to 3rd, 4th to 5th..etc the tach almost doesn't go down at all.... It's like a constant...grrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRR(SHIFT) GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Where as I don't think that is happening to me at all, when I shift from one gear to the next the tach drops down at least a thousand RPM's before I am on/in the next gear giving it gas....
I shift normally at 3000rpm. I did a little test on the way home. From first to second, I took it up to 4000rpm, when I proceeded to shift from 1st to 2nd by the time I was IN 2nd and continuing to accelerate I was at 3000rpm... did it again from 2nd to 3rd again about 4000rpm and when I shifted it went down to 3000rpm again... tried from 3rd to 4th and it wasn't as bad, only went down from 4000rpm to about 3500rpm.... Is this normal for everyone or am I driving the damn car like an old person drives on a Sunday afternoon?
Any help would be great on perfecting the shifting..etc I don't stall out or coast back or anything like that but I want to feel that nice ggrrrrrr(shift)grrrrrrr and not such a long pause like grrrrr (shift) grrrrrrr.
Thanks,
-Nigel
Where as I don't think that is happening to me at all, when I shift from one gear to the next the tach drops down at least a thousand RPM's before I am on/in the next gear giving it gas....
I shift normally at 3000rpm. I did a little test on the way home. From first to second, I took it up to 4000rpm, when I proceeded to shift from 1st to 2nd by the time I was IN 2nd and continuing to accelerate I was at 3000rpm... did it again from 2nd to 3rd again about 4000rpm and when I shifted it went down to 3000rpm again... tried from 3rd to 4th and it wasn't as bad, only went down from 4000rpm to about 3500rpm.... Is this normal for everyone or am I driving the damn car like an old person drives on a Sunday afternoon?
Any help would be great on perfecting the shifting..etc I don't stall out or coast back or anything like that but I want to feel that nice ggrrrrrr(shift)grrrrrrr and not such a long pause like grrrrr (shift) grrrrrrr.
Thanks,
-Nigel
02-20-2004, 05:44 PM
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I am far from an expert I just do the best I can. . . Some people love to "rev match" so when they are clutching they give the gas a short little punch of the gas and then release the clutch. . . it takes skill to be that quick. And what i do is I barely tap the clutch when I am meaninfully going quick, try it, its not to hard and the RPM's stay consistant. Since you dont have the clutch engaged for too long it wont do any more harm than much else. Good Luck
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WRX Rush
"Go big or go home"
WRX Rush
02-20-2004, 06:05 PM
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So what you mean is when I am pushing the clutch pedal in, to blip the gas just a tad so that the RPM's go up a tad and then put it in gear and by time I am letting the clutch pedal out from the floor and adding gas it won't be such a long drop...right?
Now my question is that when you do this is this bad for the engine? Meaning even though I am not in gear but I am blipping the gas then put it in gear is that putting stress on the plates or something like that?
Thanks again :-)
-Nigel
Now my question is that when you do this is this bad for the engine? Meaning even though I am not in gear but I am blipping the gas then put it in gear is that putting stress on the plates or something like that?
Thanks again :-)
-Nigel
02-20-2004, 10:36 PM
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I'm no expert either, but this doesn't make sense. You only rev-match on downshift, because the lower the gear the higher the revs at any given speed.
Perhaps you are taking a bit longer than needed when shifting, but I wouldn't compare normal traffic-style shifting to high speed race-style shifting!
Shifting should be a fluid and deliborate 1-2-3. clutch in-shift-clutch out. Knowing the catch-point of the clutch is everything. Start giving gas at the precise moment it starts engaging, and smoothly continue up/down with each leg respectively.
That's smooth shifting, baby! =)
BTW, why do you always shift at 3000? don't you like turbo? I usually shift around 4000ish, do most driving holding it at 3000, that way turbo kicks in immediately when I need to accelerate. Not best for gas mileage, but that's not why I bought a rex! =)
Perhaps you are taking a bit longer than needed when shifting, but I wouldn't compare normal traffic-style shifting to high speed race-style shifting!
Shifting should be a fluid and deliborate 1-2-3. clutch in-shift-clutch out. Knowing the catch-point of the clutch is everything. Start giving gas at the precise moment it starts engaging, and smoothly continue up/down with each leg respectively.
That's smooth shifting, baby! =)
BTW, why do you always shift at 3000? don't you like turbo? I usually shift around 4000ish, do most driving holding it at 3000, that way turbo kicks in immediately when I need to accelerate. Not best for gas mileage, but that's not why I bought a rex! =)
02-20-2004, 10:45 PM
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Well see I have heard of people "blipping" the gas in the middle of shifts. My brother can do it and when he jams on it he can do it really well. Its juste technique i guess. I agree with Jamester about knowing the catch point on your clutch. But I like the way I am shifting. . . give it a try. . . just really fast and lightly tap the clutch 1/2 way down and take her into gear. . . its a new feeling for sure. . . its not at all bad for her. . .compared to stop and go 
Good luck
"Go big or go home"
WRX Rush
Good luck"Go big or go home"
WRX Rush
02-20-2004, 11:11 PM
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Wow, some really bad shifting advice... Dude when you are shifting normally it is quite fine (and good) for the rpm's to drop 1000 before you get back on the gas it, hell when you are shifting fast they still have to drop! Take your WRX to 4000 in 2nd and then see how fast it is going, now do that same speed in 3rd, the rpms will be about a grand or so lower... When you watch race videos they are beating the hell out of those cars... You could shift that fast too but it's not good for your car. You shouldn't blip the throttle when up-shifting, that's just gonna put extra wear on your clutch/transmission, along with being pointless. When you upshift the rpms will fall when you depress the clutch, when they fall to the correct level they will be matching your drivetrain speed. Anyway, read this for a good wirte-up on shifting:
http://www.spdusa.com/shifting.htm
This also helps too (just keep pressing next):
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm
Hope that helps you out man...
http://www.spdusa.com/shifting.htm
This also helps too (just keep pressing next):
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm
Hope that helps you out man...
02-20-2004, 11:14 PM
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Originally posted by WRX Rush
Well see I have heard of people "blipping" the gas in the middle of shifts.
Well see I have heard of people "blipping" the gas in the middle of shifts.
02-20-2004, 11:28 PM
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One more thing, yes that's completely normal the rpms you posted. That is a product of the WRX gear ratios, the lower gears are spaced out more. Look at this chart (hope the link works):
Dammit, the link's not working. Anyway, trust me, it's normal. This is not a WRX tranny and not the correct ratios but a graph of speed vs. rpms would look something like this:
http://wahiduddin.net/race/speedrpm.htm
Notice shifts in the lower gears cause bigger dops in rpms than higher gears. Hope this helps.
Dammit, the link's not working. Anyway, trust me, it's normal. This is not a WRX tranny and not the correct ratios but a graph of speed vs. rpms would look something like this:
http://wahiduddin.net/race/speedrpm.htm
Notice shifts in the lower gears cause bigger dops in rpms than higher gears. Hope this helps.
02-21-2004, 07:03 PM
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Ok, that's good to know... I just didn't want to mess the car up because I was taking too long to shift...
As far as shifting at 3000rpm, when it starts to go higher it just sounds weird, all high pitched and doesn't really sound like a brute... lol Plus I have a stock exhaust, etc... Once I get my TBE from turbo xs and their RFL then I might take it up a little higher, but for right now I mostly cruise on the high way about 70-80...
Thanks for all the replies! :-)
-Nigel
As far as shifting at 3000rpm, when it starts to go higher it just sounds weird, all high pitched and doesn't really sound like a brute... lol Plus I have a stock exhaust, etc... Once I get my TBE from turbo xs and their RFL then I might take it up a little higher, but for right now I mostly cruise on the high way about 70-80...
Thanks for all the replies! :-)
-Nigel
02-21-2004, 09:34 PM
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Blipping the throttle in between up-shifts is called double clutching, this is done to keep the revs up in between shifts. I personally find no need to do it, in my brothers mx-6 turbo i shift so fast the blow off valve doesnt even go off, im back on the gas before the valve has time to open, unfortunately i cant do that in my subaru from 1st to 2nd without getting an ugly crunch cos subaru has a crappy synchro design.
02-21-2004, 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by SHADO
Blipping the throttle in between up-shifts is called double clutching, this is done to keep the revs up in between shifts.
Blipping the throttle in between up-shifts is called double clutching, this is done to keep the revs up in between shifts.
02-21-2004, 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by SHADO
unfortunately i cant do that in my subaru from 1st to 2nd without getting an ugly crunch cos subaru has a crappy synchro design.
unfortunately i cant do that in my subaru from 1st to 2nd without getting an ugly crunch cos subaru has a crappy synchro design.
02-22-2004, 04:47 AM
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KmanRuffian sorry but you are incorrect on your 2nd reply.
But 1st of all i know i must wait on the machinery, but howcome cars like honda's and mazda etc can shift like F1 cars? Because honda has a triple cone synchro design on the 2nd gear synchro and a double cone on all other synchro's, which helps seep the oil out of the synchro's alot quicker and hence working faster, and subaru just hasnt been able to figure it out. After driving my brothers mazda turbo i realise that this kind of fun can never be had in a subaru, dont get me wrong i love subaru's and will continue to be the only make of car i buy in the future, but they just have a bit of catching up to do.
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
But 1st of all i know i must wait on the machinery, but howcome cars like honda's and mazda etc can shift like F1 cars? Because honda has a triple cone synchro design on the 2nd gear synchro and a double cone on all other synchro's, which helps seep the oil out of the synchro's alot quicker and hence working faster, and subaru just hasnt been able to figure it out. After driving my brothers mazda turbo i realise that this kind of fun can never be had in a subaru, dont get me wrong i love subaru's and will continue to be the only make of car i buy in the future, but they just have a bit of catching up to do.
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
02-22-2004, 05:12 AM
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Originally posted by SHADO
KmanRuffian sorry but you are incorrect on your 2nd reply.
But 1st of all i know i must wait on the machinery, but howcome cars like honda's and mazda etc can shift like F1 cars? Because honda has a triple cone synchro design on the 2nd gear synchro and a double cone on all other synchro's, which helps seep the oil out of the synchro's alot quicker and hence working faster, and subaru just hasnt been able to figure it out. After driving my brothers mazda turbo i realise that this kind of fun can never be had in a subaru, dont get me wrong i love subaru's and will continue to be the only make of car i buy in the future, but they just have a bit of catching up to do.
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
KmanRuffian sorry but you are incorrect on your 2nd reply.
But 1st of all i know i must wait on the machinery, but howcome cars like honda's and mazda etc can shift like F1 cars? Because honda has a triple cone synchro design on the 2nd gear synchro and a double cone on all other synchro's, which helps seep the oil out of the synchro's alot quicker and hence working faster, and subaru just hasnt been able to figure it out. After driving my brothers mazda turbo i realise that this kind of fun can never be had in a subaru, dont get me wrong i love subaru's and will continue to be the only make of car i buy in the future, but they just have a bit of catching up to do.
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
Last edited by KmanRuffian; 02-22-2004 at 05:15 AM.
02-22-2004, 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by SHADO
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
Secondly about the double clutching, i may not have been clear in what i said in my previous post, blipping the throttle on
UP-shifting is a racing technique, when racing it is a priority to keep the car in the power band, and this cannot happen with the revs dropping on every gear change, so yes it is a racing technique but should obviously never be used in normal driving as it puts unecessary strain on the drive/powertrain.
