Learning the manual gearbox!
02-05-2004, 06:45 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
Learning the manual gearbox!
Hey folks. own a 2002 WRX 4EAT sedan with a decent amount of mods. I love the car and its been great. I've never really had the opportunity to drive a 5 spd or anything so I just recently purchased a 91 Honda CRX HF. I spent 1.5 hours in a parking lot today with my dad (this was kind of cool since I'm 26 and haven't really been in the position where he could show me something for a long time). I did pretty lousy I think. I can stop alright(without stalling) but getting it going in 1st is tough I pop the clutch all the time. Funny enough my dad drove it like a champ even after 15 years. I had on safety shoes(steel toes) and I don't think that helped me. I stalled like 20 times.....its kind of a tough thing once you've been driving auto for like 9 yrs. Still its exciting and I can't wait til Sunday for the next training session. I have a few questions:
1) How different is it to drive a more powerful car like the STI, or WRX?
2) What are the clutches like on WRXs and STIs?
3) any tips? I stalled a lot going into first. Basically in this car it seems first just gets you going and then you go to second. I know I'm letting the clutch out too fast and it jerks like crazy then stalls (if I can't get the clutch in again fast enough) any way to get used to letting it out easy?
4) I'm glad I didn't buy an 02 WRX with a 5spd...I think I would have broke it for sure? Are the advances in manual gearbox technology great from 1991? Is it easier these days?!!! lol
Anyway I had a good time today and thought I'd share it with the group because...pretty much thats what its all about.
1) How different is it to drive a more powerful car like the STI, or WRX?
2) What are the clutches like on WRXs and STIs?
3) any tips? I stalled a lot going into first. Basically in this car it seems first just gets you going and then you go to second. I know I'm letting the clutch out too fast and it jerks like crazy then stalls (if I can't get the clutch in again fast enough) any way to get used to letting it out easy?
4) I'm glad I didn't buy an 02 WRX with a 5spd...I think I would have broke it for sure? Are the advances in manual gearbox technology great from 1991? Is it easier these days?!!! lol
Anyway I had a good time today and thought I'd share it with the group because...pretty much thats what its all about.
02-05-2004, 09:20 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey! I am a recent 5-speed convert, after driving auto for, well, a REALLY long time. Every one of my friends that drives stick said "learn stick, you'll never go back." It was time for a new car, I got the bug, and I plunged in and got a wrx- my first stick!
I couldn't even drive it off the lot! I was so embarrased; I had a couple lessons from friends, but it had been awhile... I felt like the biggest ***! My dealer was nice enough to give me a refresher course on the lot.
I got it home (it was late), and the next day I practiced. A LOT! In two days I had it down. Now it's been three months and I feel like a pro. (I know I'm not. yet.)
As for your questions:
1) can't really answer because this is my first. But I will say that everyone told me "1st is only to get going." Well, I drive out of my neighborhood in 1st (lots of stop signs), no prob.
2) the wrx clutch releases kinda high (I've been told), about 3/4's up. maybe this is for quicker "performance" shifting, tho I usually still take it all the way down to the floor when shifting. Every car's different, you just learn it.
3)this helped me: sit with the car in 1st, clutch to the floor. SLOWLY let it up, trying to feel the engagement. When it starts to engage, the car will start to quiver/shake. As soon as you feel this, push back to the floor quickly. Go up very slowly so you don't stall. Do this over, and over, and over.... You will memorize the magic spot. That's 75% of learning a manual right there! Also, you have to "ride" the clutch a little from 1st, let off the clutch slowly while gently accelerating and feel it out. In my rex, 1st - 2nd is also a little work to feel smoothly, but from there on the upshifts are smooth as silk.
Good Luck and be patient! It's all feel, once you understand the simple physics of gears (same as a bicycle).
My friends were right: I'll never go back to automatics! Now I gotta teach the g-friend!
JAMES
I couldn't even drive it off the lot! I was so embarrased; I had a couple lessons from friends, but it had been awhile... I felt like the biggest ***! My dealer was nice enough to give me a refresher course on the lot.
I got it home (it was late), and the next day I practiced. A LOT! In two days I had it down. Now it's been three months and I feel like a pro. (I know I'm not. yet.)
As for your questions:
1) can't really answer because this is my first. But I will say that everyone told me "1st is only to get going." Well, I drive out of my neighborhood in 1st (lots of stop signs), no prob.
2) the wrx clutch releases kinda high (I've been told), about 3/4's up. maybe this is for quicker "performance" shifting, tho I usually still take it all the way down to the floor when shifting. Every car's different, you just learn it.
3)this helped me: sit with the car in 1st, clutch to the floor. SLOWLY let it up, trying to feel the engagement. When it starts to engage, the car will start to quiver/shake. As soon as you feel this, push back to the floor quickly. Go up very slowly so you don't stall. Do this over, and over, and over.... You will memorize the magic spot. That's 75% of learning a manual right there! Also, you have to "ride" the clutch a little from 1st, let off the clutch slowly while gently accelerating and feel it out. In my rex, 1st - 2nd is also a little work to feel smoothly, but from there on the upshifts are smooth as silk.
Good Luck and be patient! It's all feel, once you understand the simple physics of gears (same as a bicycle).
My friends were right: I'll never go back to automatics! Now I gotta teach the g-friend!
JAMES
02-05-2004, 11:07 PM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Wexford(Pittsburgh)/Gainesville
Posts: 49
Car Info: 2004 WRX
i drove a stick for half an hour when i was 14 in India. but that doesn't really add too much to the experience since the only time i drove after that was about 2 years later when i turned 16. i drove an auto for a 5-6 months and got the hang of navigating in traffic and getting the general 'driving' down. then over that summer i learnt stick on my dad's 93 Accord DX. (which later became my car)
and i've been driving stick since then. basically, go to a flat parking lot or road and try moving the car with just the clutch. yes it can be done. finesse is the key word here. throttle control is also very important. practice getting the RPMs to stay at a constant 2000 then to 3000 then back to 2500 and be able to hold them at a certain rpm for a period of time.
1st gear is ONLY to take off on the street. do not bother shifting to it any other time. also, in my old 93 accord to be smooth and not jerk around (i think the car had a light flywheel with regards to the torque it produced (137 ft.lb)) i could never completely disengage the clutch in 1st. let the clutch half way out while in 1st and when it was time to go to second like a few seconds later, i'd push it in all the way and shift.
don't even bother practicing the 2=>3 shift or 3=>4 shift etc. get the take off from 1st down and the 1=>2 shift down. everything else is a joke compared to these two things.
once you are competent in upshifting, then you can work on rev-matching your downshifts etc. go to www.howstuffworks.com and read up on 'how a manual tranny works' get an understanding of the mechanical aspects and visualize it in your head and it will help you shift better. do NOT force the transmission into doing anything it doesn't want to.
btw, i've been driving stick for the past 5 years now and i feel i'm pretty competent on the upshifting, and rev-matching/double-clutching on downshifts etc. although there are always some times were i **** it up and in my head i say sorry to the car.
and i've been driving stick since then. basically, go to a flat parking lot or road and try moving the car with just the clutch. yes it can be done. finesse is the key word here. throttle control is also very important. practice getting the RPMs to stay at a constant 2000 then to 3000 then back to 2500 and be able to hold them at a certain rpm for a period of time.
1st gear is ONLY to take off on the street. do not bother shifting to it any other time. also, in my old 93 accord to be smooth and not jerk around (i think the car had a light flywheel with regards to the torque it produced (137 ft.lb)) i could never completely disengage the clutch in 1st. let the clutch half way out while in 1st and when it was time to go to second like a few seconds later, i'd push it in all the way and shift.
don't even bother practicing the 2=>3 shift or 3=>4 shift etc. get the take off from 1st down and the 1=>2 shift down. everything else is a joke compared to these two things.
once you are competent in upshifting, then you can work on rev-matching your downshifts etc. go to www.howstuffworks.com and read up on 'how a manual tranny works' get an understanding of the mechanical aspects and visualize it in your head and it will help you shift better. do NOT force the transmission into doing anything it doesn't want to.
btw, i've been driving stick for the past 5 years now and i feel i'm pretty competent on the upshifting, and rev-matching/double-clutching on downshifts etc. although there are always some times were i **** it up and in my head i say sorry to the car.
02-06-2004, 12:30 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
hehe, I meant to put that in; you NEVER downshift to 1st while driving. (Pretty much) Once you get good, if needed you can double-clutch down to 1st, but only if you're crawling. I do this when pulling into my alley where I park.
Also, the practice of holding your revs at different intervals (like MRF582 said) IS important, as this is how you learn NOT to roll backwards too much when stopped on an incline. You can practice holding yourself on an incline by juggling the clutch/gas pedal. Careful, though, too much of this will burn out the clutch!
The biggest fear I had when starting out was the mental perception of "gas = go." It's weird to give a bunch of gas and NOT spring forward, like in an automatic. But this is mental; you adjust to it.
I test drove an automatic wrx when I was feeling scared of comitting to a stick. There is a big difference in power off the line. The manual gets up to speed much sooner. It is liberating not having to wait for the car to decide what to do. YOU control the revs, YOU control the shifts! =)
Also, the practice of holding your revs at different intervals (like MRF582 said) IS important, as this is how you learn NOT to roll backwards too much when stopped on an incline. You can practice holding yourself on an incline by juggling the clutch/gas pedal. Careful, though, too much of this will burn out the clutch!
The biggest fear I had when starting out was the mental perception of "gas = go." It's weird to give a bunch of gas and NOT spring forward, like in an automatic. But this is mental; you adjust to it.
I test drove an automatic wrx when I was feeling scared of comitting to a stick. There is a big difference in power off the line. The manual gets up to speed much sooner. It is liberating not having to wait for the car to decide what to do. YOU control the revs, YOU control the shifts! =)
02-06-2004, 05:14 PM
#5
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: town / kaneohe
Posts: 4,499
Car Info: gc w/ neons and a wrx that needs neons
1) wouldn't know cuz the only stick i ever drove is my wrx.
2) my father said that this clutch is a lot better than his older nissan truck. so the technology got better? i guess?
3) practice, lotssssss of practice. thats what i was told. takes time to figure out how to keep your revs. when i first started, i took the car out at midnight and drove all over the place. not very well i might add.
so your wrx is an auto? i heard that in Hondas you can do clutch drops to get a quick start, but that is asking for a broken tranny on the wrx.
2) my father said that this clutch is a lot better than his older nissan truck. so the technology got better? i guess?
3) practice, lotssssss of practice. thats what i was told. takes time to figure out how to keep your revs. when i first started, i took the car out at midnight and drove all over the place. not very well i might add.
so your wrx is an auto? i heard that in Hondas you can do clutch drops to get a quick start, but that is asking for a broken tranny on the wrx.
02-07-2004, 05:53 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
I started driving manual about 6 months ago when i bought my Legacy, the guy i bought the car off had to drive the car back to my house for my because i wasnt confident enough with manual. About 5 months before i bought the car i had 3 professional lessons then i just taught myself when i bought my car.
The hardest and scariest thing for me was when starting off on a hill, scared to roll back and hit someone.
I think the trick to manual is finding where the friction point on the clutch is, the point just before the car is about to stall, a bit before this point is where you should start applying the gas when starting in 1st, dont apply the gas when the clutch is all the way in.
The hardest and scariest thing for me was when starting off on a hill, scared to roll back and hit someone.
I think the trick to manual is finding where the friction point on the clutch is, the point just before the car is about to stall, a bit before this point is where you should start applying the gas when starting in 1st, dont apply the gas when the clutch is all the way in.
02-08-2004, 05:18 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
I had another driving session today and I did a lot better. There was even a lot of traffic in the parking lot where I practice. I had to perform in some real world driving situations. For example I was stuck on an incline because a car was coming my way and I then had to get the car going again in gear without rolling into the parked car behind me. Thankfully I made it. That friction point is pretty much the big thing and for me the hardest thing to do is get starting in first or reverse. After that I can brake, downshift and up shift pretty easy. I even launched my car a few times at like 3000 rpm....but with 72 horse or whatever it wasn't impressive. I still stall it in first sometimes. I seem to get going the best when I rev a little bit first and then as the rpms are falling ease the clutch out. I didn't realize it was such an "touchy" process of easing in the clutch and easing it out. A lot of fun, but I did a lot of jerking around....and in front of a lot of people in the lot. Being humbles is good....
02-08-2004, 05:35 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Also dont forget to learn how to use your hand brake for hill stops, this is very important as you dont want to be stuck on a 45 degree hill and not know how to do this, most experienced drivers can do it without hand brake but for a beginner like you it is a must.
02-08-2004, 10:42 PM
#9
Dahveed aka Robin Hood
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Robbin' the Hood (Claycord)
Posts: 4,793
Car Info: (RIP) '04 STi Silver
An old Honda tranny & clutch is going to be much more forgiving than a 5MT WRX.
The Honda shifter is going to feel less precise, even rubbery compared to the WRX.
The Honda clutch is also much lighter than the one on the WRX, and yes, everything other ppl have said about the higher clutch point is true too.
The sum of this is that you are in better shape to learn stick in your Honda that you would in a WRX!
The Honda shifter is going to feel less precise, even rubbery compared to the WRX.
The Honda clutch is also much lighter than the one on the WRX, and yes, everything other ppl have said about the higher clutch point is true too.
The sum of this is that you are in better shape to learn stick in your Honda that you would in a WRX!
02-09-2004, 01:26 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
Good thing I'm learning on this thing then. Plus it gives me time to decide my next move, STI, 350Z, SRT-4, Evo....who knows! One question how would you use your hand brake on hills? I haven't heard of doing that from anyone. The shifter on the CRX is kind of "rubbery" still pretty defined gates and everything though.
02-17-2004, 08:21 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Glen Rock, PA
Posts: 527
Car Info: 95 Impreza coup, green, 5speed 1.8l awd
has anyone else learned driving and stick at once?
because now that i have been drive for so long when i got my light weight flywheel i had enough experience that i only need to give 300rpms more than before
i have only driven a auto twice and i hate it because the brakes are too touchy compared to my limp impreza brakes
so practice practice practice and you can drive like a champ
because now that i have been drive for so long when i got my light weight flywheel i had enough experience that i only need to give 300rpms more than before
i have only driven a auto twice and i hate it because the brakes are too touchy compared to my limp impreza brakes
so practice practice practice and you can drive like a champ
02-17-2004, 10:08 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
I learned to drive and on a manual transmission car (1974 Toyota Corolla). I think it was easy for me since all my family's cars were manuals. I grew up knowing the basic mechanics of shifting -- it was just a matter of putting them into practice.
--Richard
--Richard
02-17-2004, 11:08 PM
#13
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Jose-near milpitas
Posts: 820
Car Info: 03 Wrx black sedan + 2013 BRZ
Originally posted by turborambler
One question how would you use your hand brake on hills? I haven't heard of doing that from anyone.
One question how would you use your hand brake on hills? I haven't heard of doing that from anyone.
Jason
02-18-2004, 10:50 AM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Everyone stressed the hand-brake maneuver to me also. Well, it seems to me that if you know where that catch point is with the clutch, you'd never need to use it.
I practiced holding myself on an incline, juggling the gas/clutch. Admittedly, this will burn out your clutch if you do it too much!
But really, do any experienced stick drivers really do the hand-brake thing, or is it just advice for newbs that are still scared of hills?
I practiced holding myself on an incline, juggling the gas/clutch. Admittedly, this will burn out your clutch if you do it too much!
But really, do any experienced stick drivers really do the hand-brake thing, or is it just advice for newbs that are still scared of hills?
02-18-2004, 01:13 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 76
Well after one god awful night where I thought my dad was gonna kill me and the CRX was gonna die I was ready to hang it up. The next day my dad drove me to a community college campus and said "I'm going to go for a walk you toy around with this". So there I sat. I got it going without stalling it, and then again, then I pulled it into a spot and put it into reverse....no stalling. I did this for about an 30 minutes until I stalled it in reverse. Then I even managed to get the car going in second gear! So after 4 hours or so I think I got it down. I still get nervous on hills so I haven't been driving it around much (plus I have a WRX..and auto or not the car hauls), but I plan to practice on the hills near where I live. There are nice side streets for that near me. So after I get this down I'm supposed to teach my friend...hopefully I'm a good teacher.