Another busted '02 WRX tranny..
07-18-2004, 09:18 AM
#1
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Douglas, Ma
Posts: 8
Car Info: 02 Blaze Yellow WRX
Another busted '02 WRX tranny..
Well I guess my time had come, 100,500 mi, one of the first WRX's to hit the street way back March '01 , blaze yellow. Driving home from work one day last week, hit the off ramp and couldn't get it out of 4th. Eventually I found a 'neutral' but the 'H' pattern was gone. Limped home and towed to the dealer and now the fun is starting. I am 36 yr old, Car is slightly modded with 3" MRT turbo back, 18" P1 wheels, big sway bars and strut bars, evething else is cosmetic. Never, 'Abused' and loved like the love of my life. Engineer by trade and race fan by choice, (I've been to 2 ALMS events this year and headed to Mosport in a couple of weeks.)
I had experienced the 'shudder' but it was never that bad, about 2 weeks ago I was getting some whining noise when the clutch was let off, throw out bearing noise would be my guess, then it went away. Until this.....not sure they are related. Not sure if I would have brought it in imeediately that anything would be different either. Hindsight is 20/20.
I got it to a local dealer who immediately starts in with the no warranty stuff. At 100K I wasn't looking for a thing. I did ask about the shudder technical bulletin, must have made him nervous.
I am doing my homework now. I can't walk away from the car yet, not ready to buy an STi and I'm waiting for better colors and more bugs to get worked out. So I guess I'll rebuild it.
I figure the problem is not the clutch, although at 100K mi, better replace it, while I am there better do the flywheel to. Spec clutch stage 1 with the Fradanza flywheel. I have got the sychro's and bearings on order, and I pray that's what it is. Sounds to me from talknig to different peeps that it may be the gear fork. I sure hope I don't need all new gears as well.
The dealer however is not helping any. He says he can rebuild with Subaru parts and offer a very limited 30 day warranty or with 'upgrade' parts and no warranty at all or he offers a used tranny install. Not a good situation at all. OEM parts dont' leave one with a good feeling, OEM is failing all over, 30days is nothing,so logic dicates better parts. Better parts means NO support. Used isn't an option, after spening the $3-4 to do that you have no garaunted that it will last at all. I press him on why with 'better' parts he can't at least stand behind his work and install. I am a reasonable guy not looking for a freebie, but I have concerns wheather this dealer has ever done a WRX tranny rebuild and if he's capable. We eventually come to an understanding that he will stand behind his work, but not offer any garauntee. Of course I can't get it in writing. I am out on a limb as I am sure all in this situation find themselves. He's quoting 15hrs to rebuild. In doing my homeowork that might be optimistic. I hope its nothing to bad, just synchro's maybe. I don't have $6k to go with new gears as well as rebuilding everything else. I need to do this in the $3-4K range or less. Even that is ridiccolus.
I guess my major gripe is that Subaru is not helping this situation at all. I don't mean "do mine for free either. " This can't be good business. I have 100K on the car, I know that, I have enjoyed every mile with a smile. I'd like to enjoy another 100K, but Subaru is making that difficult. This will tarnish there rep as cars that will run forevfer. Once the tranny goes, you are caught in no mans land. There are no good options for loyal owners.
A great car, but after a couple of years and possibly as much as 100K (I haven't heard of anyone making it more miles without a tranny problems), you can't get the tranny redone so it will last for under $6k??!!!??
Does Subaru expect a bunch of enthusiast to embrace this. I would think SOA would embrace some kind of a fix that would work for all. I have no problem with paying to have the tranny redone, can't we meet half way. Why is SOA clearly placing the burden of weak trannies completely on the consumer? It makes no sense. SOA makes no $$ off of aftermarket grade up parts. No one buys stock rebuilds, and every owner gets a real bad taste as far as Subaru support and customer loyalty. Its loose loose.
I have always had my eye on the STi even when I first bought my WRX and the dealer told me there were no plans for the STi. Now with the way Subaru is handling all this, I think I'll be looking at the EVO Long and hard!!!
I should prolly get this redone and sell it, with new cluthc and rebuilt synchro's and all, while its fresh and get into an EVO.
Thanks SOA for all the support, Thanks SOA for making my next car choice easier.
From a previously loyal customer just looking to get a tranny rebuilt right.......
****Sorry for the long rant, I hope you guys can feel my pain and know where its coming from. *****
I had experienced the 'shudder' but it was never that bad, about 2 weeks ago I was getting some whining noise when the clutch was let off, throw out bearing noise would be my guess, then it went away. Until this.....not sure they are related. Not sure if I would have brought it in imeediately that anything would be different either. Hindsight is 20/20.
I got it to a local dealer who immediately starts in with the no warranty stuff. At 100K I wasn't looking for a thing. I did ask about the shudder technical bulletin, must have made him nervous.
I am doing my homework now. I can't walk away from the car yet, not ready to buy an STi and I'm waiting for better colors and more bugs to get worked out. So I guess I'll rebuild it.
I figure the problem is not the clutch, although at 100K mi, better replace it, while I am there better do the flywheel to. Spec clutch stage 1 with the Fradanza flywheel. I have got the sychro's and bearings on order, and I pray that's what it is. Sounds to me from talknig to different peeps that it may be the gear fork. I sure hope I don't need all new gears as well.
The dealer however is not helping any. He says he can rebuild with Subaru parts and offer a very limited 30 day warranty or with 'upgrade' parts and no warranty at all or he offers a used tranny install. Not a good situation at all. OEM parts dont' leave one with a good feeling, OEM is failing all over, 30days is nothing,so logic dicates better parts. Better parts means NO support. Used isn't an option, after spening the $3-4 to do that you have no garaunted that it will last at all. I press him on why with 'better' parts he can't at least stand behind his work and install. I am a reasonable guy not looking for a freebie, but I have concerns wheather this dealer has ever done a WRX tranny rebuild and if he's capable. We eventually come to an understanding that he will stand behind his work, but not offer any garauntee. Of course I can't get it in writing. I am out on a limb as I am sure all in this situation find themselves. He's quoting 15hrs to rebuild. In doing my homeowork that might be optimistic. I hope its nothing to bad, just synchro's maybe. I don't have $6k to go with new gears as well as rebuilding everything else. I need to do this in the $3-4K range or less. Even that is ridiccolus.
I guess my major gripe is that Subaru is not helping this situation at all. I don't mean "do mine for free either. " This can't be good business. I have 100K on the car, I know that, I have enjoyed every mile with a smile. I'd like to enjoy another 100K, but Subaru is making that difficult. This will tarnish there rep as cars that will run forevfer. Once the tranny goes, you are caught in no mans land. There are no good options for loyal owners.
A great car, but after a couple of years and possibly as much as 100K (I haven't heard of anyone making it more miles without a tranny problems), you can't get the tranny redone so it will last for under $6k??!!!??
Does Subaru expect a bunch of enthusiast to embrace this. I would think SOA would embrace some kind of a fix that would work for all. I have no problem with paying to have the tranny redone, can't we meet half way. Why is SOA clearly placing the burden of weak trannies completely on the consumer? It makes no sense. SOA makes no $$ off of aftermarket grade up parts. No one buys stock rebuilds, and every owner gets a real bad taste as far as Subaru support and customer loyalty. Its loose loose.
I have always had my eye on the STi even when I first bought my WRX and the dealer told me there were no plans for the STi. Now with the way Subaru is handling all this, I think I'll be looking at the EVO Long and hard!!!
I should prolly get this redone and sell it, with new cluthc and rebuilt synchro's and all, while its fresh and get into an EVO.
Thanks SOA for all the support, Thanks SOA for making my next car choice easier.
From a previously loyal customer just looking to get a tranny rebuilt right.......
****Sorry for the long rant, I hope you guys can feel my pain and know where its coming from. *****
Last edited by jjameson; 07-18-2004 at 10:27 AM.
07-18-2004, 10:38 AM
#2
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 139
Car Info: NONE
I can understand why the subaru delaer wouldn't stand behind anything aftermarket as far as gearsets, or anything non-standard for that matter. They'll look even worse if they get something that their guys can't install or can't support. If you're being hit up for 3-4K for a rebuild that's screwed up. I'd reccomend getting a rallispec ra gearset, we have a local mechanic which has a rebuilt trans with a ra set already in it that he's trying to get rid of. This trans has not been used since it was rebuilt, it was rebuilt with an ra set then the person it was rebuilt for opted to instead pick up a beefed up six speed.
I can put you into contact with him if you'd like.
Also, how much more mileage are you hoping to get out of the car? Would you view ~4K for a six speed upgrade to be too much?
I can put you into contact with him if you'd like.
Also, how much more mileage are you hoping to get out of the car? Would you view ~4K for a six speed upgrade to be too much?
07-18-2004, 03:58 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Douglas, Ma
Posts: 8
Car Info: 02 Blaze Yellow WRX
Sure that'd be great if you could put me in contact with him.
I never asked this dealer service to get involved with RA gearsets. I never asked for a freebie, or even a discount. I only want it done 'right'. Lets rebuild it right and stand behind the work at least a little, its a dealership. That's gotta be at least a new clutch with a little more beef. Rebuilt syncro's and bearings I imagine in the least as well. I am hoping the gearset is essentially OK? Not sure.
Are you sure on your ballpark $$ figures...
How much does he want for the rebuilt 5MT with STi Ra gears, prolly at least $3500? Plus labor shipping etc...?.....
6 spd upgrade $4K? The conversion kit alone without the tranny is 2.5K, cheapest tranny i've seen is mid 3's as well. That's with no labor....
$3-4 realistically is what I guess. Cluth, flywheel alone easy $800 or more. synchros, bearings, $500. 15+Hrs labor, fluids and misc and your at $3K. Anything else, like gearsets and you can keep going past $4k, no?
I never asked this dealer service to get involved with RA gearsets. I never asked for a freebie, or even a discount. I only want it done 'right'. Lets rebuild it right and stand behind the work at least a little, its a dealership. That's gotta be at least a new clutch with a little more beef. Rebuilt syncro's and bearings I imagine in the least as well. I am hoping the gearset is essentially OK? Not sure.
Are you sure on your ballpark $$ figures...
How much does he want for the rebuilt 5MT with STi Ra gears, prolly at least $3500? Plus labor shipping etc...?.....
6 spd upgrade $4K? The conversion kit alone without the tranny is 2.5K, cheapest tranny i've seen is mid 3's as well. That's with no labor....
$3-4 realistically is what I guess. Cluth, flywheel alone easy $800 or more. synchros, bearings, $500. 15+Hrs labor, fluids and misc and your at $3K. Anything else, like gearsets and you can keep going past $4k, no?
07-18-2004, 05:53 PM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 139
Car Info: NONE
The trans that I know that is fro sale supposedly has new synchros in it, every bearing was replaced, and of course the ra gearset. . . 3500 for a 5MT rebuilt with ra gears!! NO WAY. Hell Rallispec only charges 500'sh to rebuild a gearbox with ra gears, so if you had to replace all your synchros it would still only run you arond 2500 with shipping.
Wait for nasioc to come back up and pm downshift1, or goto www.ds1motorsports.com and tell him you heard he had one for sale.
Six speed Upgrade:
Tranny - 3200'sh
Driveshaft from auto ?$
Ring & Pinion swap for rear diff ~400
new clutch $?
Short Shifter linkage if the trans doesn't come with one ~350
so I could see a six speed swap getting into the 4500's and that's if you do all the labor yourself.
Wait for nasioc to come back up and pm downshift1, or goto www.ds1motorsports.com and tell him you heard he had one for sale.
Six speed Upgrade:
Tranny - 3200'sh
Driveshaft from auto ?$
Ring & Pinion swap for rear diff ~400
new clutch $?
Short Shifter linkage if the trans doesn't come with one ~350
so I could see a six speed swap getting into the 4500's and that's if you do all the labor yourself.
07-18-2004, 06:00 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
i would suggest a RA gearset, dogbox, or an entire STi 6sp tranny swap.
seriously though, I think we Subaru owners get treated mu ch better on warranty than EVO owners. it's iffy if mitsubishi will even be around for a few more years becasue they're going bankrupt. the EVO is the ONLY car selling in their lineup.
anyways, I think the EVO MR is going to be really nice, and I bet Subar will be comming out with something to counter that.
Let the Japanese automobile manufacturer wars begin in the US! =)
seriously though, I think we Subaru owners get treated mu ch better on warranty than EVO owners. it's iffy if mitsubishi will even be around for a few more years becasue they're going bankrupt. the EVO is the ONLY car selling in their lineup.
anyways, I think the EVO MR is going to be really nice, and I bet Subar will be comming out with something to counter that.
Let the Japanese automobile manufacturer wars begin in the US! =)
07-19-2004, 08:50 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Douglas, Ma
Posts: 8
Car Info: 02 Blaze Yellow WRX
I think my orignal observation still stands that there are no options below spending at least $4K really.
I think the 2.5 - 3.0K for the RA gears is dreaming. $1500 for the gears, $500 for synchros and bearings. ~$600 for rallisport to rebuild the gear box alone. You still have to drop the tranny and get the gearbox off and then all the shipping costs. In addition on Rallispec site they also mention another $100-600 on other misc parts. I figure with shipping and the other parts your over $3K just to get the RA gear set done to the gear box. You still have the rest of the tranny to deal with. Clutch, flywheel, misc extras, and all the labor to drop the tranny and get the gear box and put it all togehter again. My geuss a rebuild with RA gears is around $5K.
Brian H. - yes maybe, maybe he's into that rebuilt 5MT tranny for the $2.5k for the gear box alone, but if the tanny is complete with new clutch and flywheel I bet he's easily looking for $3.5K or more.
Again, $4K for a STi upgrade is dreaming. That would be doing all the 20Hrs labor yourself. You quote 3200 for the tranny, I haven't seen them that cheap but I'll give you the benefit. The conversion kit is $2.5K. You seem to be putting that together for $750 plus a drive shaft or so. Don't think it could be done for that cheap. I wish you could come help me. I did my exahust, sway bars, brakes, strut bars, stereo and tons of little stuff and fancy myself pretty good with a wrench but a glass WRX tranny is where I would draw the line. I just dont' have those kinds of tools or that kind of time.
JJ
I think the 2.5 - 3.0K for the RA gears is dreaming. $1500 for the gears, $500 for synchros and bearings. ~$600 for rallisport to rebuild the gear box alone. You still have to drop the tranny and get the gearbox off and then all the shipping costs. In addition on Rallispec site they also mention another $100-600 on other misc parts. I figure with shipping and the other parts your over $3K just to get the RA gear set done to the gear box. You still have the rest of the tranny to deal with. Clutch, flywheel, misc extras, and all the labor to drop the tranny and get the gear box and put it all togehter again. My geuss a rebuild with RA gears is around $5K.
Brian H. - yes maybe, maybe he's into that rebuilt 5MT tranny for the $2.5k for the gear box alone, but if the tanny is complete with new clutch and flywheel I bet he's easily looking for $3.5K or more.
Again, $4K for a STi upgrade is dreaming. That would be doing all the 20Hrs labor yourself. You quote 3200 for the tranny, I haven't seen them that cheap but I'll give you the benefit. The conversion kit is $2.5K. You seem to be putting that together for $750 plus a drive shaft or so. Don't think it could be done for that cheap. I wish you could come help me. I did my exahust, sway bars, brakes, strut bars, stereo and tons of little stuff and fancy myself pretty good with a wrench but a glass WRX tranny is where I would draw the line. I just dont' have those kinds of tools or that kind of time.
JJ
07-19-2004, 09:05 AM
#10
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 139
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You may want to contact dylan/downshift1. I was going to buy this tranny originally, and it was nowhere near close to 3500 dollars, it wasn't even over 2. If you wanted to trailer your car for 250 miles you could get your car to rallispec and have them do the trans rebuild for you.
Originally Posted by jjameson
I think my orignal observation still stands that there are no options below spending at least $4K really.
I think the 2.5 - 3.0K for the RA gears is dreaming. $1500 for the gears, $500 for synchros and bearings. ~$600 for rallisport to rebuild the gear box alone. You still have to drop the tranny and get the gearbox off and then all the shipping costs. In addition on Rallispec site they also mention another $100-600 on other misc parts. I figure with shipping and the other parts your over $3K just to get the RA gear set done to the gear box. You still have the rest of the tranny to deal with. Clutch, flywheel, misc extras, and all the labor to drop the tranny and get the gear box and put it all togehter again. My geuss a rebuild with RA gears is around $5K.
Brian H. - yes maybe, maybe he's into that rebuilt 5MT tranny for the $2.5k for the gear box alone, but if the tanny is complete with new clutch and flywheel I bet he's easily looking for $3.5K or more.
Again, $4K for a STi upgrade is dreaming. That would be doing all the 20Hrs labor yourself. You quote 3200 for the tranny, I haven't seen them that cheap but I'll give you the benefit. The conversion kit is $2.5K. You seem to be putting that together for $750 plus a drive shaft or so. Don't think it could be done for that cheap. I wish you could come help me. I did my exahust, sway bars, brakes, strut bars, stereo and tons of little stuff and fancy myself pretty good with a wrench but a glass WRX tranny is where I would draw the line. I just dont' have those kinds of tools or that kind of time.
JJ
I think the 2.5 - 3.0K for the RA gears is dreaming. $1500 for the gears, $500 for synchros and bearings. ~$600 for rallisport to rebuild the gear box alone. You still have to drop the tranny and get the gearbox off and then all the shipping costs. In addition on Rallispec site they also mention another $100-600 on other misc parts. I figure with shipping and the other parts your over $3K just to get the RA gear set done to the gear box. You still have the rest of the tranny to deal with. Clutch, flywheel, misc extras, and all the labor to drop the tranny and get the gear box and put it all togehter again. My geuss a rebuild with RA gears is around $5K.
Brian H. - yes maybe, maybe he's into that rebuilt 5MT tranny for the $2.5k for the gear box alone, but if the tanny is complete with new clutch and flywheel I bet he's easily looking for $3.5K or more.
Again, $4K for a STi upgrade is dreaming. That would be doing all the 20Hrs labor yourself. You quote 3200 for the tranny, I haven't seen them that cheap but I'll give you the benefit. The conversion kit is $2.5K. You seem to be putting that together for $750 plus a drive shaft or so. Don't think it could be done for that cheap. I wish you could come help me. I did my exahust, sway bars, brakes, strut bars, stereo and tons of little stuff and fancy myself pretty good with a wrench but a glass WRX tranny is where I would draw the line. I just dont' have those kinds of tools or that kind of time.
JJ
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