FUNKED1

Subaru is all excited about their new styling and sporty image. Why not turn an STi drivetrain around and build a two seater with some wild styling? Get the weight down around 2800 lbs and it would be ridiculously quick. Rear weight bias would mean the usual Subie understeer wouldn't be a problem. Seems like a no-brainer. Why is FHI so conservative?

TVA

Wouldn't make financial sense. In order to do that they would have to completely design an entirely new chassis. If you haven't noticed already Subaru is incredibilly good at making everything proprietary. Nearly all parts are interchangable and that keeps costs down. A chassis of that design would require all sorts of custom parts and the cost to design and produce a car like that with tons of parts that couldn't be used on other model lines would never be re-couped in sales.

FUNKED1

I'd think they could re-use all the drivetrain bits and the rear suspension. They'd probably want to use wishbones up front to lower the nose, lest the thing look like an Audi TT. So it wouldn't be a totally new design. But you are right that it would be all new structurally.

JamesGRrallye

iTrader: (1)

Well you ll be happy to know that you're not the only one thinking about it. Go to Google and search: Prodrive P2 concept-- and let the drool begin to flow. AWD, Mid- engine layout of the impreza drivetrain in a Prodrive built chassis. Not to mention a built in anti lag system (that backfire you hear in the WRC cars when fuel is injected into a cylinder and allowed detonate in the exhaust part of the turbo via the turbo's own heat thus keeping it spooled Unfortunately Prodrive has no plans to build it but would if there were enough interest (money) and said if they did itd, be priced around 40,000 BP (70k+ US) if they did.

As far as FHI being conservative... I think they are too busy diversifying their brand to be able to build specialty rides. They are focusing on the bigger picture and beginning expand into other businesses....they have begun to build wind turbines and right now are working on new battery cells that need no charge for 15000 miles.
That to me is radical thinking in for a Japanese company.

What needs to happen is Prodrive needs to get off their high horse and start building some S@#! that regular enthusiasts can actually buy besides the bolt on accessories they sell now. Cuz I dont think ill be buying a GRP N STI anytime soon. Subaru has the capacity to build the materials en mass (metal stamping, casting, engineering etc.) If the 2 joined forces Then maybe your and my dream of a mid engined STI powered street car can come into fruition

meilers

Rear-engine and AWD is a nasty engineering feat; I've been under the hood and driven a 4-wheel-drive 911 (RAF Euro spec) and the power makes three right turns before it reaches the driveshaft -- ugly, noisy and lots of friction. A mid-engine layout such as the Porsche Boxter is more likely, with the engine backwards and in front of the rear axle, but again AWD, the Subaru signature, might not be all that practical.

I don't see Subaru making a two-seater roadster anytime soon. They have built up their reputation making big, powerful AWD sedans and wagons (the BRAT/BAJA being the obvious exception) that seat four or more, family cars that can tear it up on the weekend. Furthermore, the open-top roadster is a really crowded category at the moment, for some odd reason. You have the S200, Solstice, MX-5 (Miata), Z3, Z4, TT, Crossfire, Elise -- there are more due in 2007 (the Sky, etc.) Why would Subaru want to enter a group that is already packed with competitors?

JamesGRrallye

iTrader: (1)

I agree with meilers but I think he's talking coupe not roadster. I did see a roadster concept from subaru couple years back that would supposedly be a hybrid. The styling of the grill of that concept made it into the styling of the '06 imprezas and Tribecas. Forgot the name of the concept though. One concept Im glad never made it into production was the impreza coupe convertible. OMG theres a pic of one prototype in my History of the Impreza book and i wanted to laugh and cry at the same time. It was fuscia colored with yellow splash graphics and had a rainbow shaped roll bar like a mid 90's mustang. Even in the book the author wrote something along the lines of "Its good that they didnt build the thing cuz they might not have recovered from the financial losses." LOL

FUNKED1

It wouldn't be any more complicated or less practical than an Impreza. Just take the existing components and mount them in the rear.

FUNKED1

And James thanks for the P2 link. Great minds think alike.

meilers

Heh -- yeah, you tell the engineers that. I'm sure they will have it done before lunch.

meilers

I hate to be a pain about this, but a 2-seater is indeed a roadster. The definition of a coupe is "a 2-door car with a cubic interior of less than 33 feet" but I found about six web sites that defined it as a four-seater. However, all roadsters are two-seaters ("a single-row with a luggage compartment and a sloping rear" is a common definition). Thus, if you want a 2-seater, you've got a roadster.

The number of rear-engine two-seater cars is very, very low. Off the top of my head I can think of the Toyota MR2, the Porsche 914 and and a whole bunch of home-built sand rails. Rear-engine coupes are a bit more common, but they have four seats (Porsche 912/911 series, Volkswagen Beetle, Corvair, Tucker and of course the De Lorean DMC-12). People have shoehorned an EJ20 into sand rails and 914s, but the result has been RWD with the engine facing the wrong way.

This never got past concept car (it didn't actually function or drive, no mention of its drivetrain except that it was part of the alt-fuel/hybrid display at the 2004 NAAS.

http://www.subdriven.com/news/publis...icle_141.shtml

Certainly more significant than that Prodrive car that will never get built.

Menik

I don't mean to be a dick, but the P2 isn't mid-engine. It's nothing more than a modified (mostly shortened) Impreza chassis. So, like the Impreza, the engine is mounted in front.


Words can't describe how hard I would rock this car.

JamesGRrallye

iTrader: (1)

Im quite loose with my automotive labeling so when I think roadster, I think convertible and with 2 seats. Roadster or not...If its got a fixed roof and 2 doors I call it a coupe. (pronounced Coo-Peh because im Greek and thats how i talk).and no we dont call the trunk the "boot" like the filthy brits either (We call it port-baggage....UHG your french accent is terrible) When I see a car that would officialy be designated by the fckin DOT as a roadster, its most likely to be an exclusive brand or model so Id then call it by its name or brand. EX: I see a vette hard top vet I call it a vette. I dont say wow nice roadster. The only time one can use the term roadster and not sound like one of those tools from Motorweek is when one sees an unidentified 2 seat cabrio and is trying to describe it to a friend who 's just not getting it. We dont have the term roadster in Greek so we just say fckin fast car or refer to the car by name. We Europeans only refer to cars as coupe so as to differentiate it from cabrio (what we Europeans call convertibles) So please dont go gettin all butthurt.. my mistake.

The article I read on the P2 was from some unofficial car enthusiast site so that may be why the info was different.

now..... As for getting off the tangent and a half that you're taking this thread. I leave it up to you guys

PS TY for the nice comment FUNKED (Left handers are in their right mind)

meilers

Now come on, you have to see the irony here in trying to lecture me on how Europeans (by which you mean everyone but the UK, yes?) do their car terminology on a forum that is based in the US and heavily trafficked by those in California and Hawaii in particular. I wasn't aware "butthurt" was a common term across the pond, but you seem to be the only person suffering that affliction

The all-knowing Wikipedia has a few opinions on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupe
(Coupe as hardtop car, not necessarily only 2 doors, having less than 33 cubic feet of interior space, having up to 4 sears and 5 doors)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roadster
"The roadster name experienced a resurgence in 1990 with the introduction of the Mazda Miata/MX-5. Though not roadsters in the traditional open sense, many manufacturers today offer "roadsters". They can be described as "convertible sports cars" because they stress driving rather than practicality - like sports cars, modern roadsters are two-seaters or 2+2."


Let's get back to the topic -- the original post was about a rear-engine, two-seater production sports car. Make a list of those in your head and none of those will be coupes. The obvious exception to this would be the Ferraris and Lamborghinis (most of which are technically mid-engine) and other odd exotica which you correctly point out are never called coupes; they are just called Ferraris or Lambos.

The filthy Brits have a term for cars that are halfway between roadster and coupe; they call them "saloons" and use this term for everything from a 911 to an Impreza sedan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_(car)#Two-door_sedan

In any case, like I originally said, the number of rear-engine, two-seater sports cars that are production models (rather than race cars) is extremely small, and the number of AWD ones is zero. The Brawler concept car would be an awesome thing for Subaru to actually produce, but whether it was rear-engine or not it would have a really crowded market of cars to compete with.

Check out this thread for an example of how such a car might drive:

https://www.i-club.com/forums/ongoing-projects-31/wrx-converted-porsche-914-a-114790/

FUNKED1

No more difficult than installing the same components in the front.

meilers

Sure. There's just the little problem of where to put the radiator and intercooler and how to get them the proper airflow, how to get the crankshaft to reverse direction, where to move the turbo so it won't set the back of your seat on fire, how to redesign the brake bias, rear suspension, transmission and many other things. Clearly you think the only difference between a front-engine and rear-engine car is that they stuck the engine in backwards, and clearly you are seriously mistaken. As a person who spent many a year under the "boot" of N/A and turbo 911s, I can tell you that a rear-engine boxer is a vastly different beast than any current Subaru. The idea that this would be a drop-in solution to stick an EJ25 in a roadster and call it a day is nothing short of absurd.