STI takes mods better than evo?
11-15-2003 | 01:34 PM
#1
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STI takes mods better than evo?
Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum, but right now (like alot of people), I am deciding if I want an STI or evo. I have been to both dealerships and they say different things.
Mitsu says: STI needs 94 octane. Evo handles better. Evo gets free synthetic oil changes, tire roatation, and inspection every 5k miles.
subaru says: evo is maxed out, you really cant get much more power out of it.
befor you say anything, i have searched and was never really happy with what i found out. Im kind of leaning towards the sti but thats because I think the sti would be a better car once I start modding the vehicle. What do you guys think?
Mitsu says: STI needs 94 octane. Evo handles better. Evo gets free synthetic oil changes, tire roatation, and inspection every 5k miles.
subaru says: evo is maxed out, you really cant get much more power out of it.
befor you say anything, i have searched and was never really happy with what i found out. Im kind of leaning towards the sti but thats because I think the sti would be a better car once I start modding the vehicle. What do you guys think?
11-15-2003 | 05:39 PM
#2
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Here is what i know.
Pros of sub
1)faster
2)lookes better
3)responds way better to mods
4)has a 6th gear
5)has way more torque
6)is running .2 bar less bost
7)driver controlled differental
8)better brake feel
9)more ground clearance
10)lighter
Pros of evo
1)turns better
2)free oil change etc...
3)better breaking distance
4)more interior space
What your heard about 94 octain is wrong, i belive it was 93 but runs fine on 91. And if you get the vishnu reflash it is ment for 91 octain. Another big thing is when you dent the frount/back of a sub bumper repair is 629/584 respectivly, while the evo is 2904/1886 respectivly. I would go with the sub. They get the same gas milage, and the thing about the truning is that they are so close that it is a drivers race, but the sub has signifigantly more power, and even more torque.
Pros of sub
1)faster
2)lookes better
3)responds way better to mods
4)has a 6th gear
5)has way more torque
6)is running .2 bar less bost
7)driver controlled differental
8)better brake feel
9)more ground clearance
10)lighter
Pros of evo
1)turns better
2)free oil change etc...
3)better breaking distance
4)more interior space
What your heard about 94 octain is wrong, i belive it was 93 but runs fine on 91. And if you get the vishnu reflash it is ment for 91 octain. Another big thing is when you dent the frount/back of a sub bumper repair is 629/584 respectivly, while the evo is 2904/1886 respectivly. I would go with the sub. They get the same gas milage, and the thing about the truning is that they are so close that it is a drivers race, but the sub has signifigantly more power, and even more torque.
11-15-2003 | 07:49 PM
#4
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 31
From: Bel Air, MD
Car Info: '02 Turbo IS300 660rwhp
I'm doing the STi vs Evo thing too and here's my observations so far.....
STi
1)faster.....depends on magazine, they're pretty equal stock
2)looks better.....very subjective, exterior is a toss up, interior goes to the STi
3)responds better to mods.....no way, Evo is killing the STi here. Until the ecu is cracked the STi is limited. How many 11 sec STi's are there? There are many 11 sec Evo's.
4)has 6th gear.....yes
5)has way more torque.....27lb-ft more peak. The larger turbo on the Evo hurts it's low-end.
6)is running .2bar less boost.....I think it's more than that
7)driver controlled differential.....yes
8)better brake feel.....haven't driven both to compare. Both have exceptional braking.
9)more ground clearance.....I would change this w/ some coilovers
10)lighter.....actually heavier by ~30#
Evo
1)turns better.....the difference in handling will probably never be noticed by 90% of the drivers.
2)free oil change etc.....my experience tells me nothing is free
3)better braking distance.....not enough to be a difference, 3' shorter 60-0 and 1' longer 80-0 according to R&T
4)more interior space.....again, not much of a difference
I'm having a hard time deciding btw these 2 cars. I like the STi better, mostly for the interior, but it's not being very cooperative w/ the mods. I'm also skeptical on the durability of the 2.5L motor. The 4G63 is a proven motor.
Both cars have their problems, just need to decide what you're looking for.
I'm looking for modability, since I can't leave anything stock. So all those w/ modded STi's give me some feedback.
Thanks.
Scott
STi
1)faster.....depends on magazine, they're pretty equal stock
2)looks better.....very subjective, exterior is a toss up, interior goes to the STi
3)responds better to mods.....no way, Evo is killing the STi here. Until the ecu is cracked the STi is limited. How many 11 sec STi's are there? There are many 11 sec Evo's.
4)has 6th gear.....yes
5)has way more torque.....27lb-ft more peak. The larger turbo on the Evo hurts it's low-end.
6)is running .2bar less boost.....I think it's more than that
7)driver controlled differential.....yes
8)better brake feel.....haven't driven both to compare. Both have exceptional braking.
9)more ground clearance.....I would change this w/ some coilovers
10)lighter.....actually heavier by ~30#
Evo
1)turns better.....the difference in handling will probably never be noticed by 90% of the drivers.
2)free oil change etc.....my experience tells me nothing is free
3)better braking distance.....not enough to be a difference, 3' shorter 60-0 and 1' longer 80-0 according to R&T
4)more interior space.....again, not much of a difference
I'm having a hard time deciding btw these 2 cars. I like the STi better, mostly for the interior, but it's not being very cooperative w/ the mods. I'm also skeptical on the durability of the 2.5L motor. The 4G63 is a proven motor.
Both cars have their problems, just need to decide what you're looking for.
I'm looking for modability, since I can't leave anything stock. So all those w/ modded STi's give me some feedback.
Thanks.
Scott
11-15-2003 | 10:16 PM
#5
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Yeah, STI does respond better to mods. That doesnt mean that there are more mods for a STI just that it will gain more from the same mod. Look at the numbers, if you put a turbo back exhaust on each car, the STI will gain much more power due to the displacement being 25% larger. I am pretty sure that most people on this board drive there cars like they are ment to be driven, so the handeling will be noticed. The STIs tranny is also much stronger, from what i understand. And trust me the 2.5L will be just fine.
11-15-2003 | 10:48 PM
#6
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 31
From: Bel Air, MD
Car Info: '02 Turbo IS300 660rwhp
The STi does not respond better to mods. The .5L displacement advantage is nice, but doesn't mean it will make more power mod for mod. The improvement in power a mod provides is determined by how efficient the factory system is. The STi has enough trouble from the factory w/ engine mgmt. Once the ecu is cracked and tuners can manipulate the fuel and timing I'm sure it will be much better.
I also doubt most STi or Evo owners can heel-toe, much less find and drive an apex. Just because someone bangs some gears and drives fast doesn't mean they can "drive". If they can, I think they'd choose the Evo because it has beaten the STi in every racetrack test I've read. Both the Evo and STi can outperform the majority of their owners....IMHO.
The STi 6spd probably is stronger than the Evo's 5spd. Mitsu is known for their lowsy tranny's, although they did beef up the Evo's.
Only time will tell for the STi and the 2.5L. The 4G63 has almost 15 years of tuning and testing in the US. We need some more STi owners to mod the cars and rack up some miles.......be the guinea pigs for us possible future STi owners
The tuners and shops need to step up and get us some engine mgmt and then get to the track and run some times. Show us what the STi can handle.
Scott
I also doubt most STi or Evo owners can heel-toe, much less find and drive an apex. Just because someone bangs some gears and drives fast doesn't mean they can "drive". If they can, I think they'd choose the Evo because it has beaten the STi in every racetrack test I've read. Both the Evo and STi can outperform the majority of their owners....IMHO.
The STi 6spd probably is stronger than the Evo's 5spd. Mitsu is known for their lowsy tranny's, although they did beef up the Evo's.
Only time will tell for the STi and the 2.5L. The 4G63 has almost 15 years of tuning and testing in the US. We need some more STi owners to mod the cars and rack up some miles.......be the guinea pigs for us possible future STi owners
The tuners and shops need to step up and get us some engine mgmt and then get to the track and run some times. Show us what the STi can handle.Scott
11-17-2003 | 03:17 PM
#8
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subaru says: evo is maxed out, you really cant get much more power out of it.
that doesnt mean that you may not be able to get tons more hp out of your subi engine but were gonna need some guinea pigs in the first few years
with other differnces as to handling and awd systems to each his own peoples expectations and driving abilities vary widely
not trying to downplay the sti im actually leaning toward it myself, yet mostly due to off the showroom potential. with paymetns on a $30k+ car its gonna take me a few years do afford some car wax and just forget about engine management(maybe by the time they develope aftermarket ecu's i can afford one)
just my $.2
11-17-2003 | 05:58 PM
#9
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I'm also doing the same thing (Evo vs Sti) and I'll say this. Coming from my 91 MR2T (which is faster than both stock) the STI, IMO is more balanced than the Evo, it feels more natural to me than the Evo for cornering and general driving.
I havent made my decision yet but I will say that the STi seems like more of a complete package than the Evo, and even though you can get more HP from an Evo, its also the driving experience and driver that can win races (not all races are in a straight line). When I drove the Evo it felt good yes, but I felt more natural/comfortable in the STi, which let me concentrate more on the roads, maybe it was just me?
BTW, I'm also worried about the aluminum block over the Evo's Iron (I'm partial to Iron blocks ) How strong is the STi block? (HP wise)
I havent made my decision yet but I will say that the STi seems like more of a complete package than the Evo, and even though you can get more HP from an Evo, its also the driving experience and driver that can win races (not all races are in a straight line). When I drove the Evo it felt good yes, but I felt more natural/comfortable in the STi, which let me concentrate more on the roads, maybe it was just me?
BTW, I'm also worried about the aluminum block over the Evo's Iron (I'm partial to Iron blocks
) How strong is the STi block? (HP wise)
11-17-2003 | 07:02 PM
#10
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 31
From: Bel Air, MD
Car Info: '02 Turbo IS300 660rwhp
Road & Track, June 2003
Evo
Curb weight...3240
Test weight...3390
STi
Curb weight...3270
Test weight...3430
You're weight distributions are correct.
Per the manufacturer's brochures....
Evo
Curb weight...3263 w/out sunroof, 3298 w/ sunroof
STi
Curb weight...3263
Evo
Curb weight...3240
Test weight...3390
STi
Curb weight...3270
Test weight...3430
You're weight distributions are correct.
Per the manufacturer's brochures....
Evo
Curb weight...3263 w/out sunroof, 3298 w/ sunroof
STi
Curb weight...3263
11-17-2003 | 09:36 PM
#11
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The numbers i gave you were from consumer reports so...
Anyways i have to appoligise for my ignorance on the evo8, i did my research and they are far from maxed out, and for now they are even better to mod then the STI, however once the sti code is cracked i belive the STI will be a better tuner. Sorry about the misinformation, i was going on what people told me.
Anyways i have to appoligise for my ignorance on the evo8, i did my research and they are far from maxed out, and for now they are even better to mod then the STI, however once the sti code is cracked i belive the STI will be a better tuner. Sorry about the misinformation, i was going on what people told me.
So it looks like I'm getting an STi:banana:
11-18-2003 | 06:14 PM
#13
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STI = 2.5L open deck aluminum block. Nathan maxed his STI 2.5 shortblock at 500whp before it crapped out - that is with forged pistons, rods, modifed cams, etc.
I claim to be no expert, but both i-speed and magnus aren't too impressed by the 2.5L open deck block on the STI.
As for just bolt ons, I guess it depends how far you want to go. I think its pretty easy to get the STI to 300whp, but then again so is the EVO.
If you're looking for serious power (500+ whp) I think that mitsu iron block is going to win.
I claim to be no expert, but both i-speed and magnus aren't too impressed by the 2.5L open deck block on the STI.
As for just bolt ons, I guess it depends how far you want to go. I think its pretty easy to get the STI to 300whp, but then again so is the EVO.
If you're looking for serious power (500+ whp) I think that mitsu iron block is going to win.
11-19-2003 | 11:57 AM
#14
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Dude the STi has a Semiclosed deck. It is aluminum alloy though but it will last for a long time knowing Subaru. Where did your friend get his parts, I haven't found anyone that makes those for the 04 STi yet. I also disagree about EVO making more power than the STi. Easy Street Motorsports ESX WRX makes 740hp and thats still a 2.0 liter engine, add .5 to that and you can get even more power out of similar modifications. I looked up I-speeds web site, They said they weren't impressed, not that they were dissapointed, truthfully there isn't too much about many engines that make people go wow. There all pretty much the same thing just done a little diffrent. My money has and always will be Subaru
11-19-2003 | 12:35 PM
#15
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Oops, I meant semi-closed block for the 2.5L sti.
The ESX car was running a 2.2L fully closed, fully built motor with upgraded pistons, rods, bearings...everything. You want to compare the fastest subaru motor powered car to the fastest dsm powered car? I think you know the answer to that. Look up John Shepherd and dsm - 8.76 1/4 compared to ESX fastest of 9.62. But thats not what the discussion is about is it? When you start replacing the entire motor and build it, we're no longer talking about the stock engine block.
I've talked to i-speed directly about my block swap options. When I indicated my power goals, the 2.5L deck was the lowest option -they didn't recommend anything over 400 crank hp for that block. If you look at my post, I never said i-speed was disappointed - they weren't too impressed.
You can strengthen any engine. Hell, the axis 2.4L stroker that I'm considering is a 2.5L sti with iron sleeves that can handle 800hp - but again, that block is no longer stock at that point.
I doubt the orignal poster is looking to spend $8K for a building a new engine. Bolt on for bolt ons, the EVO will take you farther because of the stronger block, IMO.
The ESX car was running a 2.2L fully closed, fully built motor with upgraded pistons, rods, bearings...everything. You want to compare the fastest subaru motor powered car to the fastest dsm powered car? I think you know the answer to that. Look up John Shepherd and dsm - 8.76 1/4 compared to ESX fastest of 9.62. But thats not what the discussion is about is it? When you start replacing the entire motor and build it, we're no longer talking about the stock engine block.
I've talked to i-speed directly about my block swap options. When I indicated my power goals, the 2.5L deck was the lowest option -they didn't recommend anything over 400 crank hp for that block. If you look at my post, I never said i-speed was disappointed - they weren't too impressed.
You can strengthen any engine. Hell, the axis 2.4L stroker that I'm considering is a 2.5L sti with iron sleeves that can handle 800hp - but again, that block is no longer stock at that point.
I doubt the orignal poster is looking to spend $8K for a building a new engine. Bolt on for bolt ons, the EVO will take you farther because of the stronger block, IMO.