NO replacement for DISPLACEMENT!!!
01-07-2003 | 08:28 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
then again now that i think about it cars are built for different reasons. i am sure that the porshe does not weigh that much, therefore it won't need that much torque which is one of the most important reason to get more displacement. but the point that i would like to point out is that you take a i4 civic and race it against a v8 mustang(my favorite domestic) and more than likely the mustang will win figuring that this is a drag race
01-07-2003 | 08:55 PM
#38
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,369
From: Reno, NV
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Re: no replacement for displacement
Originally posted by WRXSTIle
Somebody give Porche a call and let them know that. Becuase they havent figured it out.
Somebody give Porche a call and let them know that. Becuase they havent figured it out.
01-08-2003 | 09:43 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
I didn't mean Porches had torque problems I meant that they have proven that their is a replacement for displacement. I was talking about the dif between the mustang and the civic. You can mod a civic to beat a Mustang but only to a certain degree. (please no hating from the honda crowd) spend 5- 10 k to beat a mustang thats stock and thats cool but put the same 5- 10 k in the stang and usualy stang will win the straight line. (i wont say always because someone will have a cousin who has a friend who speant 5 grand on his civic and it beats his buddies who speant 5 grand in his stang)
For BAN the supercar may be a v12 but the Cayenne is a V8 with twin turbos or w/o. At least according to (Car and Driver jan 2003) And they also did some real impressive things with 4 cylinders. Now i'm not trying to start some lead slead/rice war I get the displacement point.
For BAN the supercar may be a v12 but the Cayenne is a V8 with twin turbos or w/o. At least according to (Car and Driver jan 2003) And they also did some real impressive things with 4 cylinders. Now i'm not trying to start some lead slead/rice war I get the displacement point.
01-08-2003 | 09:53 PM
#41
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,369
From: Reno, NV
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Originally posted by SuperMugen
The only Porsche that I can think of that has a tourqe problem would be the Boxster series. The Porsche Twin Turbo has gobs of tourqe, it peaks at 415lbs-ft at only 2700-4600rpm. If that's not enough from a measly 3.6 liter then I don't know what is.
The only Porsche that I can think of that has a tourqe problem would be the Boxster series. The Porsche Twin Turbo has gobs of tourqe, it peaks at 415lbs-ft at only 2700-4600rpm. If that's not enough from a measly 3.6 liter then I don't know what is.
The point is, small engine A is only better than big engine B when it's, well.... better. But what if Honda were to build a DOHC Vtec 5-liter V8. You think that Honda would suddenly forget how to build engines and only make 250 hp because its a large engine? Hell no! And when was the last time a Honda powered car broke into the 6's? Oh yeah, NEVER. Well, at least not yet. But once upon a time, the fastest V8 drag car in the world ran 10's. Now you've seen supercharged V8's run the quarter in less time than it takes you to get to 60 mph.
Every drop of gasoline has a finite amount of energy that can be extracted from it and turned into torque. The power of an engine is the product of how much fuel it can burn times how efficently it does it. P=F x Ef, basically, although of course there are a great many variables in deriving those 3 figures. But, if my 5.7L Corvette motor burns fuel at the same perfect efficiency of 1.0 as a Civic Si, but burns 3 times more fuel, who gets to point B faster? This entire argument has arisen from people who want to compare apples to oranges. A big V8 with a volumetric efficiency of about .45 is going to be about as powerful as a turbocharged engine of half its size with a VE of 1.0. It's just that simple. Burn more fuel, make more power. Now you know why a $5,000 JDM B-series motor will get creamed at every stoplight by the jackass in an '87 Stang with an even halfway-decent 5.0. To paraphrase Clinton's first campaign, it's the physics, stupid.
01-08-2003 | 09:59 PM
#42
Registered User
iTrader: (12)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,369
From: Reno, NV
Car Info: 1993/2000/2001 GF4 mostly red
Originally posted by WRXSTIle
I didn't mean Porches had torque problems I meant that they have proven that their is a replacement for displacement. I was talking about the dif between the mustang and the civic. You can mod a civic to beat a Mustang but only to a certain degree. (please no hating from the honda crowd) spend 5- 10 k to beat a mustang thats stock and thats cool but put the same 5- 10 k in the stang and usualy stang will win the straight line. (i wont say always because someone will have a cousin who has a friend who speant 5 grand on his civic and it beats his buddies who speant 5 grand in his stang)
For BAN the supercar may be a v12 but the Cayenne is a V8 with twin turbos or w/o. At least according to (Car and Driver jan 2003) And they also did some real impressive things with 4 cylinders. Now i'm not trying to start some lead slead/rice war I get the displacement point.
I didn't mean Porches had torque problems I meant that they have proven that their is a replacement for displacement. I was talking about the dif between the mustang and the civic. You can mod a civic to beat a Mustang but only to a certain degree. (please no hating from the honda crowd) spend 5- 10 k to beat a mustang thats stock and thats cool but put the same 5- 10 k in the stang and usualy stang will win the straight line. (i wont say always because someone will have a cousin who has a friend who speant 5 grand on his civic and it beats his buddies who speant 5 grand in his stang)
For BAN the supercar may be a v12 but the Cayenne is a V8 with twin turbos or w/o. At least according to (Car and Driver jan 2003) And they also did some real impressive things with 4 cylinders. Now i'm not trying to start some lead slead/rice war I get the displacement point.
And as far as the Cayenne, yes, it will initially be sold with only the V8, because they didn't want to trump the supercar (what are they calling it? F1?) by letting the 12 cylinder cat out of the bag too soon.
To me, it's very funny to see people blindly defending the honor of their chosen engine camp, when the fact is there are no direct comparisons. It's like music- there are only two types- good and bad. But good luck getting any two people to agree on which is which.
01-08-2003 | 10:49 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
BAN
that is so true. the music thing any way.
Im a fan of cars so i have no "engine preference" I drool over pics of the GT40 and im not a "ford" man. I cant stand people who are brand zealots. Loyalty is one thing but stupidity is another. The way it works is that there is ONE person in the world wo can say he has the fastest car and the rest can get beat by somebody.
Am i on a soap box?
Im a fan of cars so i have no "engine preference" I drool over pics of the GT40 and im not a "ford" man. I cant stand people who are brand zealots. Loyalty is one thing but stupidity is another. The way it works is that there is ONE person in the world wo can say he has the fastest car and the rest can get beat by somebody.
Am i on a soap box?
01-09-2003 | 04:27 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
WRXSTIle: Then why do you want to call up porsche if there is no torque problem, I don't understand.
BAN SUVS: I totally understand what you mean when you that a bigger engine will have more power than a smaller engine if all else is equal, which is pretty obvious. Porsches are production cars made for the street, they don't need to have 800hp out of the factory using a 6 liter. If Porsche gets 400+ hp and tourqe out of a 3.6 Twin Turbo and yet is reliable, I don't know what the problem is. Why create a whole new engine when you can use the same engine out of the Carrera, and put on a pair of turbos and do a few other minor changes that give it more than enough power for the streets.
BAN SUVS: I totally understand what you mean when you that a bigger engine will have more power than a smaller engine if all else is equal, which is pretty obvious. Porsches are production cars made for the street, they don't need to have 800hp out of the factory using a 6 liter. If Porsche gets 400+ hp and tourqe out of a 3.6 Twin Turbo and yet is reliable, I don't know what the problem is. Why create a whole new engine when you can use the same engine out of the Carrera, and put on a pair of turbos and do a few other minor changes that give it more than enough power for the streets.