modded STi vs SS Camaro/WS6 Trans Am (was: I am a little new to Scoobies)
01-27-2005, 01:27 PM
#1
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I am a little new to Scoobies
I am thinking of getting a 2004 STi and I am currently driving a 1996 Trans Am WS6, I know these cars slingshot off the line but i am use to driving a V-8 and having V-8 top end....I was wondering if gear and cams for an STi would make me preform as good if not better at higher speed to keep up with newer f-bodies(1998-2002 SS Camaro,and WS6 Trans am). Thanks for your help i am looking to join the ranks with a new car in early june
John
John
01-27-2005, 07:37 PM
#3
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I'm not familiar with f-bodies. what you can do to get an idea is look up specs/performance numbers for the STi on a car magazine website. like 5-60 time, 30-40, 40-50 times andstuff like that. it should give you an idea. altthough there are other mods to consider before gear and cams, stick around and read some stuff, you'll get a good idea of what you'll need. go to the EJ25T forum for STi performance threads.
01-28-2005, 04:48 AM
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Keeping up? Like on a road course? No problem. The F-bodies in SS form have decent power but the chassis development has lagged a bit. Of course, that's moot now since the F-body is out of production.
Power mods for both the Mitsubishi Evolution and the STi usually consist of things like engine management with dyno tuning, turbo back exhaust system, a larger turbo and the necessary injectors and fuel pump, cams for some owners, but gearing isn't one of the things that is usually changed for a street-driven car.
Given enough money, even older F-bodies can be built up to faster than both the last generation F-bodies and the STi. How fast do you want to go?
Rob's site is down due to exceeding bandwidth but his vids are worth the download and viewing. Less than two weeks ago, I re-downloaded two of his vids shot at Thunderhill. I believe his fastest lap is the one where he tangled with the earlier gen Camaro that was equipped with full race suspension and tube chassis (there's a link to an article about that car in the thread above). In any case, I think the vid filename is THILL050104_S2_LQ.WMV. IIRC, Rob is also a Mustang Cobra owner and has track experience in that car. He purchased his STi and I believe that these vids at Thunderhill are only his second event in that car. His mods at the time were few, consisting of mainly dyno tune and ECU reflash at Vishnu Performance in Pleasanton CA. I can't recall if Rob's STi had an aftermarket exhaust at that time.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
Power mods for both the Mitsubishi Evolution and the STi usually consist of things like engine management with dyno tuning, turbo back exhaust system, a larger turbo and the necessary injectors and fuel pump, cams for some owners, but gearing isn't one of the things that is usually changed for a street-driven car.
Given enough money, even older F-bodies can be built up to faster than both the last generation F-bodies and the STi. How fast do you want to go?
Rob's site is down due to exceeding bandwidth but his vids are worth the download and viewing. Less than two weeks ago, I re-downloaded two of his vids shot at Thunderhill. I believe his fastest lap is the one where he tangled with the earlier gen Camaro that was equipped with full race suspension and tube chassis (there's a link to an article about that car in the thread above). In any case, I think the vid filename is THILL050104_S2_LQ.WMV. IIRC, Rob is also a Mustang Cobra owner and has track experience in that car. He purchased his STi and I believe that these vids at Thunderhill are only his second event in that car. His mods at the time were few, consisting of mainly dyno tune and ECU reflash at Vishnu Performance in Pleasanton CA. I can't recall if Rob's STi had an aftermarket exhaust at that time.--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
01-28-2005, 11:04 AM
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The later F-bodies with LS1's are probably mid-to-high 13s cars stock, or with really basic bolt ons, whereas an STI is probably low to mid 14's. But spend a couple hundred bones on full exhaust, intercooler and some electronics for the Sube and you'll probably be able to hang with most street-driven F-bodies. And if you want to go further than that, it's just a question of how much money you want to spend. You CAN do tens and have a streetable car, Camaro or Sube, but it won't be cheap.
Cams are not the first thing to do on a turbo car. And as for gears....you mean like final drive ratio? Forget it- it's not like changing the rear end on a RWD muscle car. You have to remove the tranny and open it up. Play with your wheel sizes instead.
Cams are not the first thing to do on a turbo car. And as for gears....you mean like final drive ratio? Forget it- it's not like changing the rear end on a RWD muscle car. You have to remove the tranny and open it up. Play with your wheel sizes instead.
01-28-2005, 06:03 PM
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A friend of mine just made 310 pounds of torque and 270 horsepower... to the wheels. Stock turbo, intercooler, block, and heads. Does this answer your question sir? 
01-30-2005, 10:52 AM
#8
Originally Posted by BAN SUVS
A friend of mine just made 310 pounds of torque and 270 horsepower... to the wheels. Stock turbo, intercooler, block, and heads. Does this answer your question sir?
so much torque.....so much.
01-30-2005, 11:26 AM
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Stock to stock an STi, should have no trouble with an LT1 F-body, and LS1 is a different story. An STi should trap 102ish in stock form, the LS1 is almost 10mph faster. One of my buddies with nothing more than an SLP Lid has run a 12.73@111mph at Sac. With the modding goes, it's far easier to mod 5.7L for more juice than it is 2.5L. It just depends how much money you want to spend. Also I'd be willing to bet that a 700whp LS1 would be far more reliable than a 500whp STi. If you're looking for straight line speed the STi isn't for you, for the money it would take to put an STi in to low 12s-high 11s you could have an LS1 in the 10s.
01-31-2005, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Falconskaterjoh
i was really wanting to stay ahead of an ls1 up to atleast 100....i was really wanting to know how much it would be and what you have to do to get it to that point...
I can't give you cost figures for this, but I'd guess $500-1000 for exhaust, $500 for a couple of the electronics gizmos, and $250 each for adjustable fuel press regulator/blowoff valve.
01-31-2005, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Black
The later F-bodies with LS1's are probably mid-to-high 13s cars stock, or with really basic bolt ons, whereas an STI is probably low to mid 14's. But spend a couple hundred bones on full exhaust, intercooler and some electronics for the Sube and you'll probably be able to hang with most street-driven F-bodies. And if you want to go further than that, it's just a question of how much money you want to spend. You CAN do tens and have a streetable car, Camaro or Sube, but it won't be cheap.
Cams are not the first thing to do on a turbo car. And as for gears....you mean like final drive ratio? Forget it- it's not like changing the rear end on a RWD muscle car. You have to remove the tranny and open it up. Play with your wheel sizes instead.
Cams are not the first thing to do on a turbo car. And as for gears....you mean like final drive ratio? Forget it- it's not like changing the rear end on a RWD muscle car. You have to remove the tranny and open it up. Play with your wheel sizes instead.
Before the STi came out, we were always chasing the Camaros with our WRX's. Unfortunately, as we bolted stuff on and knocked tenths off of our time, so were they.
By the time I got down to the 13.5 range with my WRX, it seems as though all of the newer generation Camaros were strapping on N2O and SC's.I never did catch them bastards.
Last edited by gpatmac; 01-31-2005 at 07:09 AM.
01-31-2005, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by gpatmac
It is my experience that LS1's are 13.5 pass after pass with basic bolt-ons. STi's are 13.1-13.2 with NO bolt-ons.
So here we have confirmation that these 2 cars are actually pretty comparable out of the box. Thus, dollar for dollar, tuning either an Ls1 or STi should be fairly even. Don't assume that all LS1 mods are super cheap- they're not just any other small block Chevy that you can slap a carb and headers on- their manifolds, headers and cams are relatively quite expensive and I would think a similar investment on an Sti (ie new bigger turbo and i/c
) would make you extremely competitive with even spraying or Vortech'ed LS1's.
01-31-2005, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Black
I would think a similar investment on an Sti (ie new bigger turbo and i/c ) would make you extremely competitive with even spraying or Vortech'ed LS1's.
) would make you extremely competitive with even spraying or Vortech'ed LS1's.
01-31-2005, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Black
Don't assume that all LS1 mods are super cheap- they're not just any other small block Chevy that you can slap a carb and headers on- their manifolds, headers and cams are relatively quite expensive and I would think a similar investment on an Sti (ie new bigger turbo and i/c ) would make you extremely competitive with even spraying or Vortech'ed LS1's.
) would make you extremely competitive with even spraying or Vortech'ed LS1's.The argument can go on for days, there's no replacement for displacement( a turbo is a replacement right? what about when they have a turbo too?)
Last edited by illusion; 01-31-2005 at 08:48 AM.
01-31-2005, 09:27 AM
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I agree. Turning an STI into a drag car (or any AWD or FWD car with a low-displacement engine) is a worthless enterprise. The big-block blown engines will always kill you for less money. We think the Japanese aftermarket parts market is big, but it is NOTHING compared to the American hot rod market.
A friend of mine built up a Nova to 500 WHP/10.6-second 1/4 mile for less than $11,000 -- and that included the cost of the car. Trying to take a $32,000 car that runs high 13's stock and make it run 10's, and fighting turbo lag and drivetrain loss at the same time doesn't seem like a worthwhile project.
A friend of mine built up a Nova to 500 WHP/10.6-second 1/4 mile for less than $11,000 -- and that included the cost of the car. Trying to take a $32,000 car that runs high 13's stock and make it run 10's, and fighting turbo lag and drivetrain loss at the same time doesn't seem like a worthwhile project.