View Poll Results: Should deaths caused by steetracing be proscecuted as murder?
No; since there is no intent, it is not murder, it is manslaughter
19
54.29%
No, but the law should be changed.
5
14.29%
Yes; it's okay to bend the rules to make an example
0
0%
Yes; deaths caused by street racing fall into the definition of murder
11
31.43%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll
Is death caused by street racing murder?
02-06-2003 | 07:15 PM
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,682
From: Union City/San Diego, CA USA
Car Info: The Thundercougarfalconbird
I answered closest to what I'd think it will be called in courts. Manslaughter. This is because the intent to kill one person or a group of people is not there. But then again, remembering what happened at UC Santa Barbara a year and a half ago with that director's kid is sobering.
But, I would think that the prosecutors will try tack on other things to compound the sentence. Stuff like wreckless driving, wreckless endangerment, and gross negligence can be tacked on.
But the point is.. Race on the race track or on the drag strip. Not on the streets.
Tim
But, I would think that the prosecutors will try tack on other things to compound the sentence. Stuff like wreckless driving, wreckless endangerment, and gross negligence can be tacked on.
But the point is.. Race on the race track or on the drag strip. Not on the streets.
Tim
02-06-2003 | 08:26 PM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Please think this over a bit before answering. Try not to answer emotionally.
***************
That's what I am doing.
You're the one who asked the question, so, expect some feedback whether it's to your liking or not.
A "yes" or "no" is a non emotinal answer. That's all I'm pointing out.
If you understand how polls are constructed and what can go wrong and be wrong with them, you would understand my concerns.
I mean that in a sincere way, not to be mean or argumentative. I hope you see and understand that.
As far as the issue of "murder", I believe we are close in the way we see it.
T
***************
That's what I am doing.
You're the one who asked the question, so, expect some feedback whether it's to your liking or not.
A "yes" or "no" is a non emotinal answer. That's all I'm pointing out.
If you understand how polls are constructed and what can go wrong and be wrong with them, you would understand my concerns.
I mean that in a sincere way, not to be mean or argumentative. I hope you see and understand that.
As far as the issue of "murder", I believe we are close in the way we see it.
T
02-07-2003 | 10:28 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
You should be careful about your assumptions. I do know how polls are constructed and I do understand your concerns. To insinuate otherwise could come off as pompous or self aggrandizing when you simply don't know the facts.
The poll was constructed to ascertain an opinion and the reasoning that opinion was formed. The technology here does not allow the contruction of a poll that can collect a binary or multiple choice answer while separately and statistically tallying reasoning for that answer which is standard method. Free form comments, while helpful, cannot be accurately tallied here.
And yes/no is an answer and only that. It is not qualified by emotion or rigid factual contemplation. In fact, it is totally non qualified. Either a yes or no could be strongly influenced by intense emotion. I simply asked for contemplation, regardless of the choices given. To suggest that just because someone only answers "yes" or "no" that answer is not emotional is deeply flawed logic.
Finally, I expected feedback, just not an implied insult (whether you meant it or not) on the methodology used, which, by the way, is not based on my opinion, but instead, on general trends in opinions on the discussion thread that preceeded this poll. This poll was meant to tally the opinions in that free form discussion.
No poll is ever perfect. The limitations of this software are obvious, as pointed out by other users.
Despite its flaws, the poll is useful and helps summarize the discussion thread.
If you wanted to be helpful, it would have been appropriate to send me a private message. But making your comment in a public forum is not only inappropriate, it's off subject and a distraction to the matter at hand.
The poll was constructed to ascertain an opinion and the reasoning that opinion was formed. The technology here does not allow the contruction of a poll that can collect a binary or multiple choice answer while separately and statistically tallying reasoning for that answer which is standard method. Free form comments, while helpful, cannot be accurately tallied here.
And yes/no is an answer and only that. It is not qualified by emotion or rigid factual contemplation. In fact, it is totally non qualified. Either a yes or no could be strongly influenced by intense emotion. I simply asked for contemplation, regardless of the choices given. To suggest that just because someone only answers "yes" or "no" that answer is not emotional is deeply flawed logic.
Finally, I expected feedback, just not an implied insult (whether you meant it or not) on the methodology used, which, by the way, is not based on my opinion, but instead, on general trends in opinions on the discussion thread that preceeded this poll. This poll was meant to tally the opinions in that free form discussion.
No poll is ever perfect. The limitations of this software are obvious, as pointed out by other users.
Despite its flaws, the poll is useful and helps summarize the discussion thread.
If you wanted to be helpful, it would have been appropriate to send me a private message. But making your comment in a public forum is not only inappropriate, it's off subject and a distraction to the matter at hand.
Originally posted by WoRX
Please think this over a bit before answering. Try not to answer emotionally.
***************
That's what I am doing.
You're the one who asked the question, so, expect some feedback whether it's to your liking or not.
A "yes" or "no" is a non emotinal answer. That's all I'm pointing out.
If you understand how polls are constructed and what can go wrong and be wrong with them, you would understand my concerns.
I mean that in a sincere way, not to be mean or argumentative. I hope you see and understand that.
As far as the issue of "murder", I believe we are close in the way we see it.
T
Please think this over a bit before answering. Try not to answer emotionally.
***************
That's what I am doing.
You're the one who asked the question, so, expect some feedback whether it's to your liking or not.
A "yes" or "no" is a non emotinal answer. That's all I'm pointing out.
If you understand how polls are constructed and what can go wrong and be wrong with them, you would understand my concerns.
I mean that in a sincere way, not to be mean or argumentative. I hope you see and understand that.
As far as the issue of "murder", I believe we are close in the way we see it.
T
02-07-2003 | 11:29 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
If you wanted to be helpful, it would have been appropriate to send me a private message. But making your comment in a public forum is not only inappropriate, it's off subject and a distraction to the matter at hand.
*********
We'll just have to disagree then as to what is or is not "emotional".
As far as sending you a PM, I didn't think it necessary as I did NOT intend insult with my comments. I think my post should be received as I intended. If I left it open, then I will clear it up. No insult was intended. My intention was to add a suggestion. Now, beyond that, other meaning is speculation as I have now cleared my intent.
You're response seems argumentative more than it needs to be. I'll accept it could be my interpretation.
Again, I'll state that I believe your answers, regarding the poll, are "leading" to a conclusion and are written as such. That is not to disrespect you. I only meant it to be helpful to you, and others, as a reminder regarding the problems that can occur with polls.
I hope that helps clear up my intent.
Also, It is very appropriate to discuss a poll and it's intent in a public forum when the "public" in the forum is asked. My comments were very much on and about the subject.
Your response is on this forum as well. If it were inappropriate to discuss this in "public" then perhaps you too could have PM'd me and I would have removed my comments if necessary.
But, I shall take this no further. I understand your polls intent and it's results intrique me as well. Please feel free to rebutt what I have just stated and I will accept that and not respond further so as to keep this converstational rather than argumentative.
Again, no disrespect was intended towards you nor was it intended to be personal.
T
*********
We'll just have to disagree then as to what is or is not "emotional".
As far as sending you a PM, I didn't think it necessary as I did NOT intend insult with my comments. I think my post should be received as I intended. If I left it open, then I will clear it up. No insult was intended. My intention was to add a suggestion. Now, beyond that, other meaning is speculation as I have now cleared my intent.
You're response seems argumentative more than it needs to be. I'll accept it could be my interpretation.
Again, I'll state that I believe your answers, regarding the poll, are "leading" to a conclusion and are written as such. That is not to disrespect you. I only meant it to be helpful to you, and others, as a reminder regarding the problems that can occur with polls.
I hope that helps clear up my intent.
Also, It is very appropriate to discuss a poll and it's intent in a public forum when the "public" in the forum is asked. My comments were very much on and about the subject.
Your response is on this forum as well. If it were inappropriate to discuss this in "public" then perhaps you too could have PM'd me and I would have removed my comments if necessary.
But, I shall take this no further. I understand your polls intent and it's results intrique me as well. Please feel free to rebutt what I have just stated and I will accept that and not respond further so as to keep this converstational rather than argumentative.
Again, no disrespect was intended towards you nor was it intended to be personal.
T
Last edited by WoRX; 02-07-2003 at 11:34 AM.
02-07-2003 | 12:02 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
I refuse to engage in a public forum competition for the last word on each point.
Let's concentrate any posts here on the SUBJECT of the poll, not the methodology.
If you wish to further debate the methodology or any other subjects, please send me a PM.
Let's concentrate any posts here on the SUBJECT of the poll, not the methodology.
If you wish to further debate the methodology or any other subjects, please send me a PM.
Last edited by cmlnr; 02-07-2003 at 12:05 PM.
05-23-2003 | 11:00 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
CONCLUSION: MANSLAUGHTER
Well, the verdict was manslaughter. And as tragic as this was, I agree with the outcome.
Anyway, the skinny:
...were convicted of reckless driving causing injury and two counts each of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence. They now face prison sentences of 71/2 years and 121/2 years, respectively, rather than the possibility of life terms had they been convicted of second-degree murder charges.
And the full story:
LINK TO ARTICLE
But take a look at the photo in the article. They probably caught the guy smiling when the verdict was read, but they almost make his laugh look sinister, like he got away with something... (I won't get into how I feel about partial, slanted journalism...)
Anyway, the skinny:
...were convicted of reckless driving causing injury and two counts each of vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence. They now face prison sentences of 71/2 years and 121/2 years, respectively, rather than the possibility of life terms had they been convicted of second-degree murder charges.
And the full story:
LINK TO ARTICLE
But take a look at the photo in the article. They probably caught the guy smiling when the verdict was read, but they almost make his laugh look sinister, like he got away with something... (I won't get into how I feel about partial, slanted journalism...)
Last edited by cmlnr; 05-23-2003 at 11:05 AM.
04-29-2005 | 06:48 PM
#26
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 22
manˇslaughˇter
The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.
murˇder
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
There is a difference, Some person driving at lets say: 160mph in a 70mph zone. He doesnt have malice towards the people he could kill. The driver has no intention of people possibly getting injuried. I would have to support, a verdict of manslaughter.
The unlawful killing of one human by another without express or implied intent to do injury.
murˇder
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
There is a difference, Some person driving at lets say: 160mph in a 70mph zone. He doesnt have malice towards the people he could kill. The driver has no intention of people possibly getting injuried. I would have to support, a verdict of manslaughter.
Last edited by MotorCitySTI; 04-29-2005 at 06:49 PM. Reason: to add in
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