View Poll Results: Who will win?
BJ (the prodigy) Penn
27
46.55%
GSP
31
53.45%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll
Who are you for BJ Penn or GSP??????
02-02-2009, 05:50 PM
#121
Vaseline or not, the outcome would still have been the same. If BJ Penn's crew wants to dispute something like this, do a rematch. I guarantee u BJ wants no part of GSP any time soon.
02-02-2009, 05:58 PM
#122
As far as the p4p debate, in my honest opinion, I don't think he is THE p4p best. That would probably belong to Fedor or Anderson Silva. However, BJ definitely belongs somewhere in the relevant discussion of p4p best fighters. Yes he is easily outdone by the accomplishments of Fedor and Silva so there is a large gap between them and BJ. But if you look at any discussion or article attempting to rank p4p fighters I can almost guarantee that you'll see BJ's name on the list. This doesn't happen on accident.
02-02-2009, 06:17 PM
#123
Do I think BJ would have won sans vasoline... probably not. But it does give the advantage and it is illegal and just down right dirty. That's a plain and simple fact. Nothing wrong with it being a formal complaint so that if it does happen again it will be caught and dealt with more sternly. I don't think the fight results should be in question.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them fight again but I honestly think BJ needs to bust *** and focus on 155. Dominate down there and shut up the critics. I don't think people should be discounting his abilities for fighting the top guys in the weight class above his a few months after fighting at 155. It's a difficult transition and one no doubt pushed by Dana White.
And I'd bet your wrong. I'd bet that BJ would fight GSP again no questions asked. I don't think he should but I do think he would. Just like chuck would and did fight rampage no questions asked. These guys are warriors.
I think fighting outside of your weight class is a bad idea. Guys are just too good these days.
If you look at silvia... he carries the weight. Some guys cut mad weight to get to a lower weight class but can safely and day to day DO carry the extra weight. That's how you get 2 class fighters. But 15 pounds is a lot for a guy that doesn't have the stature to carry it to put on. He could have done a better job doing it and been more competitive but that's just not who he is. I think the fight was a mistake. I hope it wakes him up. Makes him take a few more fights and train hard at 155. Dominate for a year or two. Then if he really wants the 170. Train HARD for 6 months then do it. He is just not that muscle bound kind of dude that is necessary to fight a guy like GSP a weight class up.
make sense?
Why is everyone quoting me. I don't think I've said one bad thing about GSP and nothing but honest truth about BJ. I don't see how there are any faults in my reasoning? And I didn't even watch the fight.
For all I know BJ got out classed 100% and it had nothing to do with anything. I'm speaking purely about each fighter and their histories and the rules and history of MMA.
**** if you gave me a half million dollars I'd fight GSP right now. Then if you asked me again a couple weeks and said you'd pay me $750k because the people liked watching me get beat to **** and like the fat underdog I'd do it again. And I'm not a trained fighter.
To call BJ a coward and doubt he'd do it again is just ludicrous. If he doesn't want to do it again it has nothing to do with being scared of getting hurt. It's about his career, image and marketability.
02-02-2009, 07:30 PM
#125
I think fighting outside of your weight class is a bad idea. Guys are just too good these days.
If you look at silvia... he carries the weight. Some guys cut mad weight to get to a lower weight class but can safely and day to day DO carry the extra weight. That's how you get 2 class fighters. But 15 pounds is a lot for a guy that doesn't have the stature to carry it to put on.
As for Canada asking GSP to wrestle in the Olympics, I don't know anything else other than Mike Goldberg mentioning it during the PPV.
02-02-2009, 07:45 PM
#126
wight jump is all body type.
Henderson is another wrestler type body. Wide and muscular. BJ is more of a leaner dude. His weight is different. But you're probably right. It seems to me that in most of his losses he gases. He's not really get "beat" up. Just gassed.
15 pounds of muscle is an easy transition for me so to speak but not so much for my brother. In college I went from 168 to 208. muscle. Now I'm just a fat ***. But for my brother to put that much weight on... even 15 pounds, he'd have to carry a lot more weight than he's designed to carry.
Some of these guys walk around at 5-15 pounds over their fight weights and cut. Cutting and gaining can be the difference between to equal or close to equal fighters.
Henderson is another wrestler type body. Wide and muscular. BJ is more of a leaner dude. His weight is different. But you're probably right. It seems to me that in most of his losses he gases. He's not really get "beat" up. Just gassed.
15 pounds of muscle is an easy transition for me so to speak but not so much for my brother. In college I went from 168 to 208. muscle. Now I'm just a fat ***. But for my brother to put that much weight on... even 15 pounds, he'd have to carry a lot more weight than he's designed to carry.
Some of these guys walk around at 5-15 pounds over their fight weights and cut. Cutting and gaining can be the difference between to equal or close to equal fighters.
02-02-2009, 08:36 PM
#127
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That got me thinking, I would totally fight GSP for $1,000,000! I'd get the CRAP beat out of me and would be injured like a mother f'er, but I'd have bragging rights on top of the million dollars... hahahah... Get a Tshirt that says "I got my *** kicked by GSP".
I'd do it for $100,000 or less... I wouldn't be too scared. I would however be REALLY scared to fight Fedor... Sure, GSP is strong, but imagine Fedor's heavy hands coming at you? You know, the one hit knock out hands that made his last opponent literally eat canvas... Aye!
02-02-2009, 08:51 PM
#128
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Constantly referring to him as "the prodidy *****" exposes a little bias here.
Throwing in the towel under the right circumstances is the intelligent thing to do instead of risking serious injury. Often it is actually the cornermen who decide to stop the fight and not the fighter (it's unclear in bj's case). In 2003, Chuck Liddell's corner threw in the towel against his fight with rampage. You had might as well argue that anybody who taps is a *bleep* because they are giving up in order to prevent serious injury.
Throwing in the towel under the right circumstances is the intelligent thing to do instead of risking serious injury. Often it is actually the cornermen who decide to stop the fight and not the fighter (it's unclear in bj's case). In 2003, Chuck Liddell's corner threw in the towel against his fight with rampage. You had might as well argue that anybody who taps is a *bleep* because they are giving up in order to prevent serious injury.
As for P4P best, I'd agree that Fedor is the man, but Anderson Silva, well, no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb5B6xBZiX8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mgLIdEXqUk
Couture: no, for the same reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ5mzXFMUKg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJRnWHZvdcM
02-02-2009, 09:22 PM
#129
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GSP said that at the time of the fight, he probably weighed around 187 lbs. For those of you who saw the fight, the guy was absolutely ripped. BJ weighed 168 lbs at the weigh ins and came into the fight at probably no more than 175 lbs. Just to give you an idea of what BJ Penn was up against. I'm sure the cornerman rubbing vaseline on GSP's back and shoulders didn't help either. Regardless, BJ should stay at 155 and forget about moving up in weight. Guys like GSP and Alves are absolute monsters at that weight.
02-02-2009, 10:15 PM
#130
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"Size doesn't make the fighter"
-Bruce Lee
20lbs really isn't that much of a difference for a fighter that is supposed to be as skilled as some of these guys. I've watched Fedor take down guys that were 40lbs more them him with ease. You know why? Because he's a HELL of a fighter. I've seen Cro-Cop take down guys 30-40lbs (or more when he was in pride at his peak)... Again, great fighter.
10-20lbs shouldn't have made that much of a difference.
-Bruce Lee
20lbs really isn't that much of a difference for a fighter that is supposed to be as skilled as some of these guys. I've watched Fedor take down guys that were 40lbs more them him with ease. You know why? Because he's a HELL of a fighter. I've seen Cro-Cop take down guys 30-40lbs (or more when he was in pride at his peak)... Again, great fighter.
10-20lbs shouldn't have made that much of a difference.
02-02-2009, 11:08 PM
#131
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I just find it ironic that everybody was so certain that BJ was going to win. But now that he lost all the excuses come out that he never stood a chance because he was out of shape, he gained weight too fast, that he should of never went up a weight class, that his camp sucked.
If all the BJ fans knew this ahead of time why was everybody so certain he was going to come out the victor??
And I take back the ***** comment lol
I was getting irritated because people tend to put you down on this forum if you happen to disagree with them.
If all the BJ fans knew this ahead of time why was everybody so certain he was going to come out the victor??
And I take back the ***** comment lol
I was getting irritated because people tend to put you down on this forum if you happen to disagree with them.
02-03-2009, 09:04 AM
#132
Plus he actually got cut below the eye and was bleeding slightly from his nose (ate a direct punch to the face). I've never seen BJ get cut or bleed in a fight, ever. The cut and the blood wasn't that bad though.
02-03-2009, 09:12 AM
#133
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"Size doesn't make the fighter"
-Bruce Lee
20lbs really isn't that much of a difference for a fighter that is supposed to be as skilled as some of these guys. I've watched Fedor take down guys that were 40lbs more them him with ease. You know why? Because he's a HELL of a fighter. I've seen Cro-Cop take down guys 30-40lbs (or more when he was in pride at his peak)... Again, great fighter.
10-20lbs shouldn't have made that much of a difference.
-Bruce Lee
20lbs really isn't that much of a difference for a fighter that is supposed to be as skilled as some of these guys. I've watched Fedor take down guys that were 40lbs more them him with ease. You know why? Because he's a HELL of a fighter. I've seen Cro-Cop take down guys 30-40lbs (or more when he was in pride at his peak)... Again, great fighter.
10-20lbs shouldn't have made that much of a difference.
Lets not forget BJ still won the Welterweight before which is a big accomplishment for someone who is a natural Lightweight.
BJ also fought Lyoto Machida when Machida weighed in at 216lbs or some ****! I mean you have to give it up to the guy even though he has bad work ethic.
02-03-2009, 09:14 AM
#134
BJ penn got beat up and gassed out during his fight with GSP
Plus he actually got cut below the eye and was bleeding slightly from his nose (ate a direct punch to the face). I've never seen BJ get cut or bleed in a fight, ever. The cut and the blood wasn't that bad though.
Plus he actually got cut below the eye and was bleeding slightly from his nose (ate a direct punch to the face). I've never seen BJ get cut or bleed in a fight, ever. The cut and the blood wasn't that bad though.