Long_Travel_WRX

iTrader: (2)

ive had my helix flex crack in half but might be becuse i modified by adding the external wastegate dont know if it had something to do with it, im too lazy to cut the flex open to take picts, ive also seen first hand a solid up pipe crack from stress, also seen aftermarket headers crack from stress related incedents i weld this shiitt most afternoons so ive seen it, go with a flex always gonna last longer dont care what you say

Long_Travel_WRX

iTrader: (2)

just for the record the helix flex is not A BRAIDED FLEX JOINT AS YOU STATED
is simply an acordian flex with a mesh cover if you take the time to look at it,
and for them to say running a flex with a aftermarket header is no good is the bigest load of crap yet, for the record just last week a car with a nice high dollar header running a solid aftermarket up pipe had two nice clean crack around both flanges, one thing that is correct a header expands and contracts alot putting stress on the solid up pipe because the up pipe brackets are solid mounted under the turbo that action will cause one or the other to fail so dont know wtf there talking about, if the turbo is on a custom up pipe most of the time it will last, given that there is no up pipe bracket similar to the stock one with that said dont go selling your solid up pipe peoples im just speaking my experienced opinion

your friendly local self proclamied fabricator, james

EJ20Legacy

So I guess if they both fail, you might as well go solid for the lack of turbulence and Crucial for the lifetime warranty,

Just for the record, 321 stainless expands and contracts even less than cast iron. The ceramic coating lessens that further by shielding the metal from a certain amount of additional heat.

I'm honestly not super partial either way (flex vs. solid). They both have their merits. It's just the "OEM does it so aftermarket should, too" argument that makes no sense coming from people like us.

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

In response to this. My background is mechanical engineering. When I look at a part I look at it from many different angles. I look at the functionality, will it perform, what are the potential drawbacks/advantages of a design. How is the quality of the build? Do they use consistent and quality materials, as to not cut cost corners. What is the longevity of the piece. Lastly how does it look.

When is look at the APS uppipe I see a piece that has many advantages over other pipes. First being it's engineered, there's a lot to be said for engineering. Second, the overall strength and integrity of the piece. The cast turbo inlet section is bullet proof(literally) there is no chance of developing a leak/breakage from poor welds or inconsistent materials. In therory a properly tapered inlet to the turbo should provide a smoother flow. In addition the insulating qualities of the thicker cast iron should provide more consistent exhaust gas heat. I see the flex secion as a advantge and a disadvantage. The disadvantage being, there is potential to develop leaks, naturally the are more breaks in the pipe. This can be prevented by proper intallation. Chances are likely that it will leak eventually but you have to do your best. The advantage I see in the flex section is in the case of an upipe failure due to an expansion joint breaking or leaking all you have to replace is the expansion joint. not the whole pipe. Another advantage to the flex section is it's placement. It is in perfect position to absorb vibration variances off of the exhaust manifold and allow for the expansion of both the upipe and exhaust manifold. Lastly cost. The APS is more expensive but I see an advantage. This is why you see so many more helix pipes out there. How many times have you been asked the advantage/disadvantage of a part as opposed to how much will it cost. Overall cost is generally the determining factor in most peoples decision to buy an item. Setteling with it's good enough. This a process I go through with every part. I actually find it rewarding to do the research and apply the knowledge I have to purchasing. I feel much better about my purchase when it arrives at my door.
Comments?
Jeff

soundwave

iTrader: (14)

Is that to justify that you spent more $$ for a product that won't work x% better?

Testing of flow and data ? You didn't answer that.

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

I see the merits of what your saying based on cost as 99% of people's decision making is based on cost, unfortunatley from a engineering standpoint there are also good and bad things from the cast peice. Cast being stronger is good, casting unless ported typically is less than smooth (look in any cast turbo turbine)

Based on performance you might as well save the cash as the APS unit will not out perform the Helix (I have tested both).

Mike

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

Does the warranty cover the turbo failure when the ceramic coating breaks up?

Mike <-- seen what ceramic coating chunks can do!

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

Stock uppipes are by no means perfect but I would love to see proper before and after proof with ECU resets to negate long term corrections to back up the above statement.

Mike

GotBoost?

iTrader: (3)

yep, but its not installed yet.....the one I currently have on my car IS a JDM uppipe also.....But yea, the TwinScroll will be installed soon enough...as I just ordered my DP today. w00t!


OK, so I got suckered into this one <shrug>, no j/k..LOL not really.....all I really cared about at the time of purchase was that it was catless, and cheap.....I originally wanted a Helix, but they were out of stock when I went to buy it...so MPJ hooked me up with a killer deal on a JDM one.

-Ted

EJ20Legacy

Yeah, I would also. Unfortunately 5 hp is also pretty much meaningless as a Subaru will vary that much run-to-run without changing a thing, as you know. People have claimed gains from switching out the OEM piece all over NASIOC for a long time now. I don't have personal experience in this area so I'll just write that off to hearsay. Looking at the OEM piece though, it's not much of a stretch to think it's credible.

At any rate, if it's true or believed to be true it'll definitely help you/Gruppe-S as the Helix is one of the most popular aftermarket choices ... so don't bash the idea too hard, haha.

Russ really, really stands behind his product. If the coating did break up and cause a turbo failure, I actually think he would help the owner with the purchase of a new turbo. Really.

If you're interested, they have a description of their ceramic coating process and the coating used HERE.



Moike -- I'm not trying to step on your lovely and talented toes here . The Helix is a good pipe for the price.

Jeremy

UK n00b

iTrader: (3)

I typically try and stop STI owners from changing the uppipe as I hate to see people waste money (never been much of a salesman).

I have no doubt Crucial would stand behind that as from my dealings with them they have been stand up I just think internally coating something is crazy, just my opinion though.

No toes stepped on mate, I just found this a interesting debate with plenty missinformation so thought it would be interesting to stir up to see what people thought as opposed to had proven data for.

Now for another uppipe to throw out there, the Perrin unit is also 321 stainless and none flex anyone have any thoughts on this unit?

Mike

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

I didn't spend any money on an APS uppipe. I Don't own one. I'm was speaking of the method to justify my post. I see more pros than cons. Therefore I see an advantage. I would love to do a bench test to compare CFM and Turbulence through each of the Upipes available. I would imagine that the results would be very similar, probably not measurable. So the comparison goes back to cconstruction and material quality, longevity of the piece and potential down time replacing inferior parts. This is where I see the advantage.
As for the smoothness of cast iron, a hone down the center would take care of that real quick.

GotBoost?

iTrader: (3)

its puuuurty.....


that is all



-Ted

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

I haven't looked at the perrin specifically. I have seen some exhaust systems by perrin. They don't seem to use stainless tig. Take a look at onemanarmy's exhaust. All of the welds are rusted on a "stainless" exhaust. If the same holds true for the upipe, I'd say inferior product.

ipozestu

iTrader: (18)

I have to agree with this. Coatings on the inside seems like a bad idea.