Big Talker

I am really curious to find out how many people have taken their Vishnu set-up to ProDrive or taken their Cobb set-up to Turbo XS and asked them to “tune their car.”

The $64K question , that was already asked on this thread, is how do you define “tuner” ?

Just because Shiv has a dyno and tunes cars running one of his set-ups (for a fee), does not make Vishnu a one-stop repair shop for all of your car repair needs. Vishnu is a bit of an anomaly in the marketplace as it not marketed as a shop that focuses on the installation of parts, regularly scheduled maintenance, or major repairs.

They have a very narrowly defined focus. I will not personally find fault with a company for choosing not to work on products that they do not sell or install. I find it hard to believe that if you brought your Subaru to a BMW dealer they would service your car.

Big Talker

I have no idea why, but I just spent the last half hour actually reading the thread regarding 1WRX2NV's tuning session or writing a response. But here we go.

Not to restart the entire debate, but why in the world would you not tell a tuner what turbo you are running if you made a change and are having your car tuned?

Back to another one of my analogies. I order a very aggressive new turbo from Andial for my mythical 996 Turbo. I then take the car into Louis Ruf and have him tune the car. (Now, I know that in this hypothetical situation Ruf and Andial do not actually produce their own turbos, but just follow along for giggles because I do not feel like researching the actual units that they utilize.)

Before, during or immediately following the tuning session, I fail to mention to my buddy Louis Ruf that that I changed to an Andial turbo(s) and the guy basically wastes 3 hours attempting to dial in my mythical car while he is under the impression that I am still running the same parts that I was when I last visited his shop. This is not a good situation and Louis would most likely throw a torque wrench at my head and have me deported from Germany.

To be continued...

Big Talker

Now, I am not sure why Shiv bothered to post on that thread in attempt to defend his actions online. The entire issue should have been addressed while you were in his shop.

a) Shiv should have been informed that there was a major change to the set-up being run before the dial-in was started.

b) When the dial-in attempt on the dyno went from one hour to two hours and then into three hours, you should of had the common sense to say " hey Shiv, do you think this issue may be caused by the new turbo I installed and forget to tell you about two hours ago."

c) Shiv went all mad scientist and was attempting to make the car perform across the entire performance spectrum like other vehicles with the same set-up that he thought you were running. After about hour of having a car not behave as it should with a know set-up, a light bulb should have gone off. Perhaps at some point during that hair pulling session, Shiv should have asked you if you changed anything on the car and if so, what the change(s) were.

There are two trails that can be taken when you start down the path of upgrading your car.

Path 1) The first is assembling a blended mix of parts, often from a variety of sources, based upon recommendations that you receive through friends, the internet, magazines, and manufacturers.

Path 2) The second trail is following a specific upgrade path that has been assembled through trial, error, testing, and adjustment by a company that provides a well defined upgrade path.

Obviously, there are positive and negatives to both approaches.

Path 1) Positives: You should save money in the short run when purchasing the parts and you may end up with higher performance figures because a single entity will not be responsible if your engine explodes.

Path 1) Negatives: You may have to go through numerous changes in the products that you run in your attempt to build an ideal set-up and unless you are working in conjunction with a shop that builds and tunes many vehicles you will most likely not be working with one to one comparisons between vehicles. Many people love the sport of bench racing, but you cannot make accurate comparisons between vehicles with different set-ups, running on different gas, and tuned by different people.

Path 2) Positives: You will often times have a set-up that works, immediately upon installation because it has been repeatedly tested on many vehicles. The company responsible for the set-up often puts a steak in the ground in terms of product failures and engine explosions. As a result, the set-up will most likely be at least somewhat safe to run and the company should be able to tell you the risks associated with your selection as well as the long-term negative impact the set-up will have on your vehicle.

Path 2) Negatives: You pay a premium typically for both parts and often for installation because the tuner has invested time and money in producing a set-up that meets a certain set of criteria. You may sacrifice power output in the name of decreased risk and/or long-term negative impact to the engine.

I am now going back to work.

Big Talker

One should never forget...double the HP, double the Delta.