What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
#16
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: watching you get smaller...in my rear-view
Posts: 4,962
Car Info: 02 STi
Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by chrisw
The fact that he does not work on non-vishnu cars is his call. He has told me "dyno horror stories" of certain cars coming into his shop barely running literally streaming fuel out the exhaust to the point where they had to evacuate the building (the shop at least). That's no joke.
The fact that he does not work on non-vishnu cars is his call. He has told me "dyno horror stories" of certain cars coming into his shop barely running literally streaming fuel out the exhaust to the point where they had to evacuate the building (the shop at least). That's no joke.
[/i]
Each time he does that it takes away time developing his product. The less time he gets to develop his product, the less money he makes. It's a simple equation. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, but if you are in the business of "tuning" thats why people go to you when they needed thier car tuned. They dont expect the guy to take thier money and then say that what they have is crap and how they need to buy his product. It makes the customer feel like crap sometimes.
If he was doing so well, then he wouldnt have to push his product on someone. He would just be a good lil "tuner" and help the person out. No matter what product they have on thier car.
As far as I-speed...they are very good and they know how to treat customers. (personal experience, not hear say). It doesnt matter what product you have, they will help you out when you go to them. If something is not correct, they work with thier customers til it is fixed. And they ARE TUNER AND INSTALLERS, unlike Shivnu.
They dont call the customer a "lying sack of sh*t" and refuse to work on someones car when there is a thread asking that persons results. (personal experience from Vishnu)
Think I am lying?? Here....http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=1wrx2nv enjoy! Then make up your mind if you want to do business with Vishnu. I am not the ONLY one to have issues with him.
-freddie
__________________
"double the HP, double the Delta"
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
I am really curious to find out how many people have taken their Vishnu set-up to ProDrive or taken their Cobb set-up to Turbo XS and asked them to “tune their car.”
The $64K question , that was already asked on this thread, is how do you define “tuner” ?
Just because Shiv has a dyno and tunes cars running one of his set-ups (for a fee), does not make Vishnu a one-stop repair shop for all of your car repair needs. Vishnu is a bit of an anomaly in the marketplace as it not marketed as a shop that focuses on the installation of parts, regularly scheduled maintenance, or major repairs.
They have a very narrowly defined focus. I will not personally find fault with a company for choosing not to work on products that they do not sell or install. I find it hard to believe that if you brought your Subaru to a BMW dealer they would service your car.
The $64K question , that was already asked on this thread, is how do you define “tuner” ?
Just because Shiv has a dyno and tunes cars running one of his set-ups (for a fee), does not make Vishnu a one-stop repair shop for all of your car repair needs. Vishnu is a bit of an anomaly in the marketplace as it not marketed as a shop that focuses on the installation of parts, regularly scheduled maintenance, or major repairs.
They have a very narrowly defined focus. I will not personally find fault with a company for choosing not to work on products that they do not sell or install. I find it hard to believe that if you brought your Subaru to a BMW dealer they would service your car.
#19
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: watching you get smaller...in my rear-view
Posts: 4,962
Car Info: 02 STi
Originally posted by Big Talker
I find it hard to believe that if you brought your Subaru to a BMW dealer they would service your car.
I find it hard to believe that if you brought your Subaru to a BMW dealer they would service your car.
It really doesnt matter cause everyone is going to have their opinion. This can open another can of worms.
-freddie
ps. A BMW shop will work on a subaru if you bring it in. Thats customer service!
#20
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: keep santa cruz weird
Posts: 435
Car Info: 2003 blue EVO
Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV
That must have been my car, since he tuned my car and was PIG RICH!!! and ran like ish!!! I have the dyno plots to show it too. [/i]
no wasn't your car... It was not even a WRX.
Each time he does that it takes away time developing his product. The less time he gets to develop his product, the less money he makes. It's a simple equation.
That must have been my car, since he tuned my car and was PIG RICH!!! and ran like ish!!! I have the dyno plots to show it too. [/i]
no wasn't your car... It was not even a WRX.
Each time he does that it takes away time developing his product. The less time he gets to develop his product, the less money he makes. It's a simple equation.
Yeah, but if you are in the business of "tuning" thats why people go to you when they needed thier car tuned. They dont expect the guy to take thier money and then say that what they have is crap and how they need to buy his product. It makes the customer feel like crap sometimes.
You still don't understand his primary business. It's not to custom tune your car. He is a tuner who makes hi-performance products for your WRX and soon the EVO. In the end, his bottom line is made just like any other manufacuture of automotive specialty products.
If he was doing so well, then he wouldnt have to push his product on someone. He would just be a good lil "tuner" and help the person out. No matter what product they have on thier car.
dyno time does not pay the bills, salaries, etc...
As far as I-speed...they are very good and they know how to treat customers. (personal experience, not hear say). It doesnt matter what product you have, they will help you out when you go to them. If something is not correct, they work with thier customers til it is fixed. And they ARE TUNER AND INSTALLERS, unlike Shivnu.
I have met the guys from I-speed. Heard good things about them, just like you.
They dont call the customer a "lying sack of sh*t" and refuse to work on someones car when there is a thread asking that persons results. (personal experience from Vishnu)
Well, that sucks. It truely does. But like the sign in the resturant says "we reserve the right to refuse business"
Think I am lying?? Here....http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hlight=1wrx2nv enjoy! Then make up your mind if you want to do business with Vishnu. I am not the ONLY one to have issues with him.
-freddie
__________________
"double the HP, double the Delta" [/QUOTE]
I followed those threads when they happened. You forgot to tell Shiv what type of turbo your using and then get all bent out of shape when he gets his dyno re-calibrated
I got hit by that too BTW.
I'm running a STX tuned ECUTEK reprogram that has been dyno'ed at 210 at the wheels. the engine and exhaust configuration with a Vishnu Stage 0 & EMI yielded 205.8 whp before and after the dyno recalibration. If I upgrade the IC pipes and get another ECUTEK reprogram (thanks shiv!! ) I know that I can put out close to 215-218 whp on the stock turbo. I have seen stage 1 cars on Vishnu's dyno put down an estimated 300 hp on the stock turbo, so I know it's possible.
#21
Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by chrisw
I have seen stage 1 cars on Vishnu's dyno put down an estimated 300 hp on the stock turbo, so I know it's possible.
I have seen stage 1 cars on Vishnu's dyno put down an estimated 300 hp on the stock turbo, so I know it's possible.
kinda confused.........
#22
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Kandahar, Afghanistan
Posts: 1,305
Car Info: 09 E90 M3 SEDAN w/DCT
Actually, the dyno recal was a farce. Freddie took his car to ATP on the DynoJet the next week, and actually laid down LESS then the cruddy 240 that he put down on the dyno dynamics. out the window goes the low reading dyno excuse. Shiv is a serpant, that will talk isht about anything that is not his product. He cares nothing about customer satisfaction, and everything about his pocketbook.>>> That is bad business. I would rather drive 1500 miles and let Trey Cobb tune my car, then drive the 20 minutes to Vishnu. LOW POWER...that is what Vishnu is all about.
They make too many excuses about everything.
They make too many excuses about everything.
#23
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: watching you get smaller...in my rear-view
Posts: 4,962
Car Info: 02 STi
Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by chrisw
You still don't understand his primary business. It's not to custom tune your car. He is a tuner who makes hi-performance products for your WRX and soon the EVO. In the end, his bottom line is made just like any other manufacuture of automotive specialty products.
Well, that sucks. It truely does. But like the sign in the resturant says "we reserve the right to refuse business"
You still don't understand his primary business. It's not to custom tune your car. He is a tuner who makes hi-performance products for your WRX and soon the EVO. In the end, his bottom line is made just like any other manufacuture of automotive specialty products.
Well, that sucks. It truely does. But like the sign in the resturant says "we reserve the right to refuse business"
My whole thing is, I got crapy ecxuses that didnt make a whole lot of sence, and that were changing every second. I talked to many other tuners out of state and they didnt agree either.
I even PAID MORE MONEY to have my car dyno'd with what Shiv gave me, then had the tuners put in one of their ECUTEK's to see the difference. Now if they tuned their ECUTEK and didnt see any noticable gains...and told be nothing more could be done, then SHIV WOULD BE CORRECT!! and there would have been a BIG apology on my part to Shiv.
BUT with 5 min. of their time I got a GAIN of 18.3 whp. THEN another 5 min. I saw another 5.3 hp. So basically in 10-15. min of just tweeking with it I got 23.6 whp OVER the base run from Shiv tuning. SAME BAD GAS!!!! And my AF was adjusted corectly from Shiv's wonderful 3 hr. tune!! I can sent you a pic of the dyno sheet too if you want. So, you can see the BEFORE and AFTER numbers. They were not even half way done!!!!
So, as far as I am concerned, he is the lying sack of sh*t and with this dyno sheet I have and the receipts totaling over $5,000 I spent at Shiv's, I have EVERY right to think and say so.
Now PLEASE dont take this personal, I am not trying to argue with you or anyone here...because they are not the ones that got screwed! I did.....If anyone asks for opinoins about this guy I will give my opinion. AND I have all the evidence I need to feel this way too. No matter what anyone says or what Shiv says.
-freddie
#25
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ...a craphole in No.County San Diego
Posts: 3,928
Car Info: MMVI AW WRX STI
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV
BUT with 5 min. of their time I got a GAIN of 18.3 whp. THEN another 5 min. I saw another 5.3 hp. So basically in 10-15. min of just tweeking with it I got 23.6 whp OVER the base run from Shiv tuning. SAME BAD GAS!!!! And my AF was adjusted corectly from Shiv's wonderful 3 hr. tune!! I can sent you a pic of the dyno sheet too if you want. So, you can see the BEFORE and AFTER numbers. They were not even half way done!!!!
BUT with 5 min. of their time I got a GAIN of 18.3 whp. THEN another 5 min. I saw another 5.3 hp. So basically in 10-15. min of just tweeking with it I got 23.6 whp OVER the base run from Shiv tuning. SAME BAD GAS!!!! And my AF was adjusted corectly from Shiv's wonderful 3 hr. tune!! I can sent you a pic of the dyno sheet too if you want. So, you can see the BEFORE and AFTER numbers. They were not even half way done!!!!
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
I have no idea why, but I just spent the last half hour actually reading the thread regarding 1WRX2NV's tuning session or writing a response. But here we go.
Not to restart the entire debate, but why in the world would you not tell a tuner what turbo you are running if you made a change and are having your car tuned?
Back to another one of my analogies. I order a very aggressive new turbo from Andial for my mythical 996 Turbo. I then take the car into Louis Ruf and have him tune the car. (Now, I know that in this hypothetical situation Ruf and Andial do not actually produce their own turbos, but just follow along for giggles because I do not feel like researching the actual units that they utilize.)
Before, during or immediately following the tuning session, I fail to mention to my buddy Louis Ruf that that I changed to an Andial turbo(s) and the guy basically wastes 3 hours attempting to dial in my mythical car while he is under the impression that I am still running the same parts that I was when I last visited his shop. This is not a good situation and Louis would most likely throw a torque wrench at my head and have me deported from Germany.
To be continued...
Not to restart the entire debate, but why in the world would you not tell a tuner what turbo you are running if you made a change and are having your car tuned?
Back to another one of my analogies. I order a very aggressive new turbo from Andial for my mythical 996 Turbo. I then take the car into Louis Ruf and have him tune the car. (Now, I know that in this hypothetical situation Ruf and Andial do not actually produce their own turbos, but just follow along for giggles because I do not feel like researching the actual units that they utilize.)
Before, during or immediately following the tuning session, I fail to mention to my buddy Louis Ruf that that I changed to an Andial turbo(s) and the guy basically wastes 3 hours attempting to dial in my mythical car while he is under the impression that I am still running the same parts that I was when I last visited his shop. This is not a good situation and Louis would most likely throw a torque wrench at my head and have me deported from Germany.
To be continued...
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now, I am not sure why Shiv bothered to post on that thread in attempt to defend his actions online. The entire issue should have been addressed while you were in his shop.
a) Shiv should have been informed that there was a major change to the set-up being run before the dial-in was started.
b) When the dial-in attempt on the dyno went from one hour to two hours and then into three hours, you should of had the common sense to say " hey Shiv, do you think this issue may be caused by the new turbo I installed and forget to tell you about two hours ago."
c) Shiv went all mad scientist and was attempting to make the car perform across the entire performance spectrum like other vehicles with the same set-up that he thought you were running. After about hour of having a car not behave as it should with a know set-up, a light bulb should have gone off. Perhaps at some point during that hair pulling session, Shiv should have asked you if you changed anything on the car and if so, what the change(s) were.
There are two trails that can be taken when you start down the path of upgrading your car.
Path 1) The first is assembling a blended mix of parts, often from a variety of sources, based upon recommendations that you receive through friends, the internet, magazines, and manufacturers.
Path 2) The second trail is following a specific upgrade path that has been assembled through trial, error, testing, and adjustment by a company that provides a well defined upgrade path.
Obviously, there are positive and negatives to both approaches.
Path 1) Positives: You should save money in the short run when purchasing the parts and you may end up with higher performance figures because a single entity will not be responsible if your engine explodes.
Path 1) Negatives: You may have to go through numerous changes in the products that you run in your attempt to build an ideal set-up and unless you are working in conjunction with a shop that builds and tunes many vehicles you will most likely not be working with one to one comparisons between vehicles. Many people love the sport of bench racing, but you cannot make accurate comparisons between vehicles with different set-ups, running on different gas, and tuned by different people.
Path 2) Positives: You will often times have a set-up that works, immediately upon installation because it has been repeatedly tested on many vehicles. The company responsible for the set-up often puts a steak in the ground in terms of product failures and engine explosions. As a result, the set-up will most likely be at least somewhat safe to run and the company should be able to tell you the risks associated with your selection as well as the long-term negative impact the set-up will have on your vehicle.
Path 2) Negatives: You pay a premium typically for both parts and often for installation because the tuner has invested time and money in producing a set-up that meets a certain set of criteria. You may sacrifice power output in the name of decreased risk and/or long-term negative impact to the engine.
I am now going back to work.
a) Shiv should have been informed that there was a major change to the set-up being run before the dial-in was started.
b) When the dial-in attempt on the dyno went from one hour to two hours and then into three hours, you should of had the common sense to say " hey Shiv, do you think this issue may be caused by the new turbo I installed and forget to tell you about two hours ago."
c) Shiv went all mad scientist and was attempting to make the car perform across the entire performance spectrum like other vehicles with the same set-up that he thought you were running. After about hour of having a car not behave as it should with a know set-up, a light bulb should have gone off. Perhaps at some point during that hair pulling session, Shiv should have asked you if you changed anything on the car and if so, what the change(s) were.
There are two trails that can be taken when you start down the path of upgrading your car.
Path 1) The first is assembling a blended mix of parts, often from a variety of sources, based upon recommendations that you receive through friends, the internet, magazines, and manufacturers.
Path 2) The second trail is following a specific upgrade path that has been assembled through trial, error, testing, and adjustment by a company that provides a well defined upgrade path.
Obviously, there are positive and negatives to both approaches.
Path 1) Positives: You should save money in the short run when purchasing the parts and you may end up with higher performance figures because a single entity will not be responsible if your engine explodes.
Path 1) Negatives: You may have to go through numerous changes in the products that you run in your attempt to build an ideal set-up and unless you are working in conjunction with a shop that builds and tunes many vehicles you will most likely not be working with one to one comparisons between vehicles. Many people love the sport of bench racing, but you cannot make accurate comparisons between vehicles with different set-ups, running on different gas, and tuned by different people.
Path 2) Positives: You will often times have a set-up that works, immediately upon installation because it has been repeatedly tested on many vehicles. The company responsible for the set-up often puts a steak in the ground in terms of product failures and engine explosions. As a result, the set-up will most likely be at least somewhat safe to run and the company should be able to tell you the risks associated with your selection as well as the long-term negative impact the set-up will have on your vehicle.
Path 2) Negatives: You pay a premium typically for both parts and often for installation because the tuner has invested time and money in producing a set-up that meets a certain set of criteria. You may sacrifice power output in the name of decreased risk and/or long-term negative impact to the engine.
I am now going back to work.
#29
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: keep santa cruz weird
Posts: 435
Car Info: 2003 blue EVO
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by 1WRX2NV
The only thing I dont get, is what you are saying...HE IS A TUNER!!! HE MAKES HELLA MONEY TUNING CARS!!. You make it sound as if the guy is doing us a favor charging us $200.00 hr. to tune our cars, but in the same time, wishing he could get back to manufacturing parts. So, yes he does both. And again makes A LOT of money doing so.
Now PLEASE dont take this personal, I am not trying to argue with you or anyone here...because they are not the ones that got screwed! I did.....If anyone asks for opinoins about this guy I will give my opinion. AND I have all the evidence I need to feel this way too. No matter what anyone says or what Shiv says.
-freddie
The only thing I dont get, is what you are saying...HE IS A TUNER!!! HE MAKES HELLA MONEY TUNING CARS!!. You make it sound as if the guy is doing us a favor charging us $200.00 hr. to tune our cars, but in the same time, wishing he could get back to manufacturing parts. So, yes he does both. And again makes A LOT of money doing so.
Now PLEASE dont take this personal, I am not trying to argue with you or anyone here...because they are not the ones that got screwed! I did.....If anyone asks for opinoins about this guy I will give my opinion. AND I have all the evidence I need to feel this way too. No matter what anyone says or what Shiv says.
-freddie
I know your not trying to argue, I know it's nothing personal.
I also don't think you understand how small his profit margins are on dyno tuning as opposed to devloping and manufacuring his parts. It's a lot bigger than you think.
The way I see it, Shiv is under no obligation to work on cars that don't have his parts or stage kits. From a legal standpoing, it's less of a liability that way. With your car, that boundary gets real fuzzy. If something goes wrong with the car, legally, who's problem is it? yours? Vishnu's? Do you see what I am saying?
The difference between you and me is I have always come away 100% satsified when dealing with Vishnu. I have paid to have my WRX on his dyno for 3 sessions now, for a total of 99 pulls. It has been almost 8 months now and I have not had any problems what so ever with his work.
#30
Registered User
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: watching you get smaller...in my rear-view
Posts: 4,962
Car Info: 02 STi
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What's the Deal W/ Vishnu Unichips??
Originally posted by mexicanpizza
That was five minutes AFTER you told him what turbo you actually had right?
That was five minutes AFTER you told him what turbo you actually had right?
No, that was actually when they pluged up their ECUTK and did a base run. So, base run to base run ( NO TUNING) I gained 18.3 whp. THEN the tuner ASKED me what mods I had, and spent another 5 min adjusting accordingly, getting another 5.3 whp. With A LOT more to go!!
Big Talker,
I was told the only difference in the PE turbo is that it spools sooner, and has better mid to high end power. Same exact housing, except the fact that it has slightly bigger internals, also better for more HP. I am not a tuner, I did not know that upgrading would cause such bad results. I am not looking at the screen, tuning the car.
I agree with you, something should have been said from both of us. Again, I didnt know that it would cause bad results. When he saw something wrong, he should have asked me, then he would have found out, and ajusted accordingly. But Shiv's relpy was that it was due to "bad gas", and was happy with the results. Then changed it later to the turbos fault, when he found out. Thus causing dout on my part, believing him or not.
I tried to call him a few times, and never got a responce. Til he called on my cell, and gave me some crap on how the PE was not as good as the vf or something like that. Again, I listened, and wanted to go in and have it fixed. I never once said anything bad about him on that thread...in fact I still refered some poeple to him during this whole mess, UNTIL he called me a few hours later and started yelling and calling me a lying sack of sh*t!! There was no need for that. That is when my whole opinion of Shiv changed completely.
As, far as him seeing negative things about his shop that he didnt want to see, then deciding that he was not going to work on my car...well, I am sorry but when you pay someone money and it doesnt turn out right, you cant just say you are "never going to work on their car again, no matter what happens to it". You try to resolve it. He never tried to do that. That is why the Better Business Bureau handles cases dealing with "Unhonored Guarantees or Warranty, and Unsatisfactory Service". And what if the right people found out that the Factory settings were being changed?? WOW, bye bye Vishnu!! BUT I am not that mean. I am not trying to destroy the man. Thats why I sold ALL My Vishnu parts and went my way.
You are correct!! This issue with Shiv is pretty much dead. No one is going to agree on every point. But I have learned that if you were to ever have an issues with any of the Vendors...dont post any opinion and dont let others know. Let them find out on their own, cause you might make that Vendor unhappy, and we dont want that
peace
-freddie