Well since the word has spread... My suby is dead
08-11-2005, 06:19 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Chrisnonstop
I love the last part...that's it, church it up a bit, but keep the hate coming...
The problem is that a lot of people seem doomed to repeat this story. "OMG it must have totally been the nitrogen in the tires y0!" type responses indicate many people on here don't think there was anything wrong in driving the way Ed was probably driving. Tire pressure does not have that great of an effect on a car's handling except at the limit! I've raced with my tires anywhere from 35 to 55 psi, and at no point did they drive like they were on "wet glass".
The only reason I posted my opinion was so that those (apparently many) of you without enough common sense to read between the lines of the original story would think twice about what probably really happened.
Now, the bottom line is that only Ed will really know what happened. IMO he was driving too fast for the turn, and I stated why I think that. Feel free to disagree... but at least think about why you disagree first... things like "that sperry guy's just a hater" and "he lives in Reno so **** him" aren't adequate reasons for my argument to be false.
08-11-2005, 06:21 PM
#62
Originally Posted by sperry
First, there's no way the nitrogen in the tires had anything to do with it. Normal air is 80% nitrogen to begin with. If you think the lack of a bit of oxygen and water vapor inside your tires is going to spin you out... yeah right.
Second, if the nitrogen filling process is computer controlled to a specific pressure, chances are that pressure is around 30 to 35 lbs, which is what most people run their street tires at, and is close to the recommended pressures for the WRX. If you have high-performance tires, you should have checked the pressures yourself, or made the guys running the system aware that your tires require 40 to 45 lbs of air. In addition as mentioned previously, S-03's wouldn't suddenly behave at 50 mph the way you described because they were +/- the recommended pressures.
Third, you admitted that the 1st turn you took in the car, it felt weird. Why wouldn't you immediately stop and check the tires!? And more importantly, why would you continue on your drive at a high pace!?
Which brings me to my fourth point. There's no way you were driving "gently" on a straight section of road, at 50 mph. I would be willing to guess you were probably going 90+, attempted to swerve around the rock, and the back-end came out. Then you oscillated several times trying to get the car under control, and ran out of road. If you had only been going 50, there is no way you could have kept enough momentum to fishtail 4 times... you would have stopped by then. Also, in order to flip a car 3 time end-over-end... well, that takes quite a bit of energy, which means, you were certainly well over 50 mph down that road.
So IMO, Jiffy Lube's in the clear. I think this was a driver-error accident. Most likely caused by excessive speed.
08-11-2005, 06:32 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by sperry
Well, I lived in San Ramon from '83 to '95...
And for someone that gets troll banned regularly... I'd tone down the "shut your ****ing mouth" comments. I'm pretty sure I was reasonable in my post, and don't deserve your weak personal attacks. Besides, running your mouth like that makes you sound like an idiot.
And for someone that gets troll banned regularly... I'd tone down the "shut your ****ing mouth" comments. I'm pretty sure I was reasonable in my post, and don't deserve your weak personal attacks. Besides, running your mouth like that makes you sound like an idiot.
Last edited by brucelee; 08-11-2005 at 06:46 PM.
08-11-2005, 06:33 PM
#64
Originally Posted by sperry
I was under the impression Ed asks for pulls to redline in 4th gear, and I've had my car at 115 mph in 4th before down the front straight at Reno-Fernley Raceway.
If that's not the case, how about a run-down of the actual procedure, gears used, and speeds achieved?
If that's not the case, how about a run-down of the actual procedure, gears used, and speeds achieved?
I do agree with you, however, that I'm putting myself in some danger doing this. I stand by the fact, however, that what happened to me was a freak accident that may have been preventable if I had checked the tires myself. It was not gross driver error on my part, especially considering the safe speed I was traveling at.
My general view on this is that if someone hasn't crashed their subaru yet, under normal circumstances, they are capable of doing a third gear pull on an empty straight road, or if they're not capable of it, they obviously know that and would ask for a dyno tune instead. I cannot live my life expecting that every car I get into will have oil on its tires or something of that nature.
08-11-2005, 06:37 PM
#65
Originally Posted by sperry
Now, the bottom line is that only Ed will really know what happened. IMO he was driving too fast for the turn, and I stated why I think that. Feel free to disagree...
08-11-2005, 06:38 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
I never said that the nitrogen itself caused any of this.
I normally run 33-35psi in my s03's, so as you said, if the tires were indeed infalted to that pressure, that shouldn't be the issue. If you read my original post, I never flat out claimed that the tires were over-inflated... it was simply the only theory I could come up with that could explain the tires acting the way they did. Others have suggested that the shop could have gotten oil or brake fluid on the tires which IMO is more likely to cause such a loss of traction on an otherwise excellent tire.
Yes, the car felt completely wrong on the ONLY turn I took. I was currently on a random road and there was a gas station in a couple miles where I had planned to stop. I continued along knowing that the rest of the roads were completely straight and even still, I continued at the speed limit even though most people tend to drive a lot faster on these roads. Admitadly I also usually drive 60-70mph out there, but decided to take it easy until I could check the tires.
You can guess all you want, but the fact is that I made a point of taking it easy untill I could get to the gas station. Unless my speedometer reads way off, I was not driving faster than 50mph. Put some oil or brake fluid on your tires, throw the car out at 50mph and tell me if you have enough momentum to fishtail 4 times. Everything you're assuming here are just that... assumptions with no previous experience to confirm them. The reason the car flipped 3 times was because of the angle and impact of the irrigation ditch. Its like hitting a ramp sideways... it doesn't take all that much momentum to send the car flipping.
Like I said in my post, you are free to have your own opinion, and it may very well be that I could have done something better to correct the slide. I just find it amusing that you can sit there and make all these assumptions of what happened, how fast I was going, and what my tire pressure was without having the slightest shred of evidence or previous experience to back it up. Then again... you know what they say about assumptions....
I normally run 33-35psi in my s03's, so as you said, if the tires were indeed infalted to that pressure, that shouldn't be the issue. If you read my original post, I never flat out claimed that the tires were over-inflated... it was simply the only theory I could come up with that could explain the tires acting the way they did. Others have suggested that the shop could have gotten oil or brake fluid on the tires which IMO is more likely to cause such a loss of traction on an otherwise excellent tire.
Yes, the car felt completely wrong on the ONLY turn I took. I was currently on a random road and there was a gas station in a couple miles where I had planned to stop. I continued along knowing that the rest of the roads were completely straight and even still, I continued at the speed limit even though most people tend to drive a lot faster on these roads. Admitadly I also usually drive 60-70mph out there, but decided to take it easy until I could check the tires.
You can guess all you want, but the fact is that I made a point of taking it easy untill I could get to the gas station. Unless my speedometer reads way off, I was not driving faster than 50mph. Put some oil or brake fluid on your tires, throw the car out at 50mph and tell me if you have enough momentum to fishtail 4 times. Everything you're assuming here are just that... assumptions with no previous experience to confirm them. The reason the car flipped 3 times was because of the angle and impact of the irrigation ditch. Its like hitting a ramp sideways... it doesn't take all that much momentum to send the car flipping.
Like I said in my post, you are free to have your own opinion, and it may very well be that I could have done something better to correct the slide. I just find it amusing that you can sit there and make all these assumptions of what happened, how fast I was going, and what my tire pressure was without having the slightest shred of evidence or previous experience to back it up. Then again... you know what they say about assumptions....
You're absolutely right, I wasn't there, and I am making assumptions about what happened, and the only evidence I have is what you posted about the incident. I'm completely willing to be wrong about the cause of this incident. I posted my opinion, and why I felt that way, and have no problem with people taking what I say with a grain of salt.
However, in the years I've been on these message boards, I've seen many people post their stories of woe regarding their accidents. And nearly all of them are due to over-driving their cars. Hell, three of my friends have wrecked cars in pretty much the same way. So, past experience tells me, when stuff like this goes down, it's usually not as innocent as the poster makes out.
So again, if I'm wrong about what really happened, then I'm sorry for suggesting that it was anything other than a situation that's totally out of your control. Oil on the tires is certainly a plausible explaination, and could be backed up by evidence on the car.
One thing I would like to point out though is how this relates to your road tuning. When you're in someone else's car, doing a pull, how do you know they don't have oil on their tires (or any multitude of other possible mechanical failures)? How can you place your confidence in their driving to the point where you're willing to risk your life? My point is... look at what just happened to your own car at 50 mph with a decent driver behind the wheel, and look at the situation you put yourself in every time you get behind a laptop in the passenger seat of someone you just met and ask them to do a pull. I'm too scared to be an instructor at a race track with a helmet, safety gear, and a waiting ambulance... I don't know how you do it.
08-11-2005, 06:48 PM
#69
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Dude, Aaron (A 04), dude, chill the hell out. Go use that energy against NASIOC folks... keep it out off the i-club or I'll have to ban your *** again.
08-11-2005, 06:59 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by brucelee
Dude, Aaron (A 04), dude, chill the hell out. Go use that energy against NASIOC folks... keep it out off the i-club or I'll have to ban your *** again.
doooooooooooooooooooo it
:banana:
this thread is funny and entertaining
08-11-2005, 07:01 PM
#71
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i dont think you can possibly slide back and forth, feint, fishtail whatever a few times, then roll 3 times all from 50 mph. are you sure you didnt fishtail onto a bmx course or something?
08-11-2005, 07:12 PM
#72
Originally Posted by RallyWagon
This is what my friend wrote to me after reading this thread ...
The only thing that makes any sense at all, and not very much at that, was that some untrained person filled his tires to some un-godly level, like 80 or 100 psi. But I would have thought that the driver would have noticed it riding like it had no suspension at all. It is very strange, especially the part about leaving NO skidmarks at all.
The only thing that makes any sense at all, and not very much at that, was that some untrained person filled his tires to some un-godly level, like 80 or 100 psi. But I would have thought that the driver would have noticed it riding like it had no suspension at all. It is very strange, especially the part about leaving NO skidmarks at all.
Do you have any idea how long the oil would stay on the tires and how it would be detectable? Maybe your friend can help me out with this?
Thanks
08-11-2005, 07:13 PM
#73
Originally Posted by SnoHumper
i dont think you can possibly slide back and forth, feint, fishtail whatever a few times, then roll 3 times all from 50 mph. are you sure you didnt fishtail onto a bmx course or something?
08-11-2005, 07:24 PM
#74
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Originally Posted by sperry
I've got friends that are looking into getting tuned by Ed, and they don't seem to understand the risks of driving around at high speeds.
The whole thing is silly. The only person in more risk than any of us usually put ourselves in is Ed, and it's his decision as to whether or not he's crazy enough to sit in the passenger seat while someone is doing a 3rd gear pull... and thankfully he is, because his tunes are great
ANYWAY -- I'm very happy that you are okay, Ed. Another tribute to Subaru safety. By now I have seen literally dozens of accounts w/ pictures from people who have been in horrible wrecks with multiple rollovers in their Subaru's and all of them walked away with nothing more than scratches and some soreness.
On a side note, Ed regularly rallies his car and drives in other performance driving events. He's not a n00b and if something caused him to lose control, it would have caused just about anybody on this board to lose control.
There's a lot of hate on here and it sucks. You guys are taking low blows at a person who just had a bad accident. It's ****ed up. Bringing up business license comments (which were totally unfounded, even months ago), and all of the other BS including in the closed thread is horrible. It makes me ashamed to be a part of the Subaru community which I have enjoyed for 7 years now.
Everyone who has issue with Ed needs to look in the mirror and realize how completely hypocritical you are being. Harping on him because road tuning is illegal is total BS unless you're going to yell at every other tuner in the country also, and every company that sells performance parts to cars that we all know are NOT for "offroad use only." Simply tuning an ECU is illegal in CA. Every single shop in the state breaks the law every day. So what. We all do. If I didn't want to break the law I would drive a Prius or get a bus pass. I only wish I had a nice, white, high horse to ride on like all of you haters apparently do.
Jeremy
--- ...and certain people who represent certain well known shops should not have the luxury to bash on other members of the Subaru performance vendor community.... ---- ...and I don't mean Mike. Moike rocks. He's super gracious and a truly nice guy.
08-11-2005, 07:27 PM
#75
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I've read this thread up to the current post and I think we should cut Ed some slack. Sure, maybe he was overdriving for the conditions but I can't make that determination unless I was following behind him at the time. We are also discounting the possibilities that there was some other mechanical reason for the odd handling of Ed's car - it was worked on by a garage prior to his drive. I guess we could say that Ed was definitely overdriving if he felt something wrong with the handling before the accident occurred but if every one of us made perfectly wise decisions and never a bad one, insurance rates on the WRX/STi would be lower than what it is.
Why don't we wait for the insurance investigator to make their determination on the cause of the loss of control and subsequent crash. All we are doing is speculating since none of us was with Ed on the drive, nor have we seen his wrecked car to examine the mechanical condition.
You don't have to like Ed personally, or his road tuning method, but we should all be relieved that no one was seriously injured or killed.
I thank you all for your consideration.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
Why don't we wait for the insurance investigator to make their determination on the cause of the loss of control and subsequent crash. All we are doing is speculating since none of us was with Ed on the drive, nor have we seen his wrecked car to examine the mechanical condition.
You don't have to like Ed personally, or his road tuning method, but we should all be relieved that no one was seriously injured or killed.
I thank you all for your consideration.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush