Well since the word has spread... My suby is dead
08-11-2005, 11:02 AM
#31
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Glad you're OK Ed. Sorry about the car though.
Sounds like a bit of a mystery. I would have the tires checked out if you could. Sounds like more than just too much air. I have heard that brake fluid on the tires will soak in and make them slide very easily. Maybe someone spilled some at the shop and you ended up driving through it?
Sounds like a bit of a mystery. I would have the tires checked out if you could. Sounds like more than just too much air. I have heard that brake fluid on the tires will soak in and make them slide very easily. Maybe someone spilled some at the shop and you ended up driving through it?
08-11-2005, 11:06 AM
#32
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Agreed...almost
Originally Posted by pink-i-wagon
Amen!
I'm religious about tire pressure. I check it at every fill-up and after every tire related service. Even when it's a speed/tire shop. Never know when someone working their has a bad day.
I'm religious about tire pressure. I check it at every fill-up and after every tire related service. Even when it's a speed/tire shop. Never know when someone working their has a bad day.
LIC
08-11-2005, 11:09 AM
#33
any chance at contacting bridgestone and get their take on how over-inflation w/ nitrogen could affect performance?
I'd think they would like to know from a QA/QC and safety perspective. Send s rep a picture of the wreck and zoom in on the tires. Then ask for input.
I am not blaming the tires...I had S03s and loved them. But those tires guys really know their stuff. And they may appreciate the R&D info.
If you get technical facts from them, then you might have a case to letigate against Jiffy.
just ideas.
Glad you're OK and good to hear another Suby safety story.
I'd think they would like to know from a QA/QC and safety perspective. Send s rep a picture of the wreck and zoom in on the tires. Then ask for input.
I am not blaming the tires...I had S03s and loved them. But those tires guys really know their stuff. And they may appreciate the R&D info.
If you get technical facts from them, then you might have a case to letigate against Jiffy.
just ideas.
Glad you're OK and good to hear another Suby safety story.
08-11-2005, 11:10 AM
#34
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I check it at every fill-up and after every tire related service. Even when it's a speed/tire shop
Buddy got bitten by that recently. Had new tires mounted at a reputable shop. When he got home, HIS gauge showed only 18 PSI.....so he inflated the tires until HIS gauge showed 38 PSI. Figuring it was a "bad day" at that tire shop.
He then went ROAD RACING....but the car had some handling oddities!
So I check his tire pressures after the session is over. MY gauge reads to 60 PSI....and is accurate. When I put MY gauge on his tires, it pegged the gauge
So I use MY gauge to let the tires back down to 40 PSI. Then put HIS gauge on the tires, and what do you know....HIS (busted) gauge shows only 18 PSI.
Needless to say, the very next move was to chunk his gauge in the trash can
Sent him out next track session with 38 real PSI in his tires, car handled a lot better
08-11-2005, 11:56 AM
#35
Thanks a lot for all the kind words.
Just for the record, this wasn't an ACTUAL Jiffy Lube, but a similar type place under the Chevron name.
The thing is that I actually watched them do the whole service and it looked like the nitrogen re-filling was done by a computerized system. The main thing that bothered me at the time was that they almost fully deflated the tires with all of the car's weight on them... It didn't seem like that would be too good for the sidewalls but they assured me all is well. I figured that since the filling was done by this high tech system, the tire pressure would be accurate, so I failed to check it myself afterwards... deffinately a mistake I won't be repeating in the future. I'm now begining to better consider the possibility of break fluid or oil getting soaked into the tire and causing the issue as I really don't think even an overinflated S-03 should act like this.
Thank you all for your thoughts on this.
Just for the record, this wasn't an ACTUAL Jiffy Lube, but a similar type place under the Chevron name.
The thing is that I actually watched them do the whole service and it looked like the nitrogen re-filling was done by a computerized system. The main thing that bothered me at the time was that they almost fully deflated the tires with all of the car's weight on them... It didn't seem like that would be too good for the sidewalls but they assured me all is well. I figured that since the filling was done by this high tech system, the tire pressure would be accurate, so I failed to check it myself afterwards... deffinately a mistake I won't be repeating in the future. I'm now begining to better consider the possibility of break fluid or oil getting soaked into the tire and causing the issue as I really don't think even an overinflated S-03 should act like this.
Thank you all for your thoughts on this.
08-11-2005, 01:25 PM
#39
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yikes, sounds like a pretty traumatic experience, but at least you made it out w/minimal injuries.
as others mentioned, jiffy lube sucks. most of their "techs" are pretty incompetent. I wouldn't send my worst enemy to those type of places. but dealer service guys aren't always the best either.
Last month, my Dad had one of his wheels front wheels fly off his car while he was going 65mph on the freeway. Can't say for certain that it was the guy who last worked on his car's fault, but basically, one of his wheel studs sheared off (w/the lugnut still attached) and the other lugnuts mysteriously flew off without any signs of damage to the other studs!
oh yeah, there's something fishy about the whole switchover to nitrogen too. I hitched a ride w/my uncle and his friend over to Vega$ last year, and he had just bought new tires from Costco (inflated w/nitrogen) before we left SF. Unexplicably, the driver's rear tire went almost completely flat while we were on the 5 in the POURING rain. I was asleep, and apparaently, the car wasn't going squirrely, but we could have been in a SERIOUS accident, especially w/all the semis around! Oh, and we hit up 2 service stations within about 50 miles but neither of them could detect a leak and just reinflated the tire and sent us on our way. We ended up driving to the Bakersfield Costco to try and get the tire replaced, but they were out of stock and wouldn't give us a different replacement. So we had to drive ALL the way to Vega$ (still in the pouring rain). Luckily the Costco there had the same model tire and replaced it, but it was a big ordeal to say the least.
Bottom line, always double-check your lugnuts & tire pressure ASAP after having your car serviced.
as others mentioned, jiffy lube sucks. most of their "techs" are pretty incompetent. I wouldn't send my worst enemy to those type of places. but dealer service guys aren't always the best either.
Last month, my Dad had one of his wheels front wheels fly off his car while he was going 65mph on the freeway. Can't say for certain that it was the guy who last worked on his car's fault, but basically, one of his wheel studs sheared off (w/the lugnut still attached) and the other lugnuts mysteriously flew off without any signs of damage to the other studs!
oh yeah, there's something fishy about the whole switchover to nitrogen too. I hitched a ride w/my uncle and his friend over to Vega$ last year, and he had just bought new tires from Costco (inflated w/nitrogen) before we left SF. Unexplicably, the driver's rear tire went almost completely flat while we were on the 5 in the POURING rain. I was asleep, and apparaently, the car wasn't going squirrely, but we could have been in a SERIOUS accident, especially w/all the semis around!
Oh, and we hit up 2 service stations within about 50 miles but neither of them could detect a leak and just reinflated the tire and sent us on our way. We ended up driving to the Bakersfield Costco to try and get the tire replaced, but they were out of stock and wouldn't give us a different replacement. So we had to drive ALL the way to Vega$ (still in the pouring rain). Luckily the Costco there had the same model tire and replaced it, but it was a big ordeal to say the least.Bottom line, always double-check your lugnuts & tire pressure ASAP after having your car serviced.
Last edited by CLsmooth71; 08-11-2005 at 01:33 PM.
08-11-2005, 01:44 PM
#40
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I have a friend who is an auto forensic. He really helped me out after my accident. I'm going to send him the link to this tread and see if he can shed any light on what might have caused your tires to behave the way they did.
I'm really sorry about what happened to your car and I'm glad to hear you're okay physically.
Jane
I'm really sorry about what happened to your car and I'm glad to hear you're okay physically.
Jane
08-11-2005, 02:05 PM
#41
Originally Posted by RallyWagon
I have a friend who is an auto forensic. He really helped me out after my accident. I'm going to send him the link to this tread and see if he can shed any light on what might have caused your tires to behave the way they did.
I'm really sorry about what happened to your car and I'm glad to hear you're okay physically.
Jane
I'm really sorry about what happened to your car and I'm glad to hear you're okay physically.
Jane
Thanks
08-11-2005, 03:09 PM
#42
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Ed,
Glad to hear you're ok man. Where the hell esle would I have taken my car for future tuning if something had happened to you? J/K. Slippery wheels...hmmm. Go check your engine, see if the oil filter is still on. You never know, Jiffy lube might not have tightened it and it just popped off sending oil everywhere on the road making it super slick...I know sounds far fetched and improbable.
Glad to hear you're ok man. Where the hell esle would I have taken my car for future tuning if something had happened to you? J/K. Slippery wheels...hmmm. Go check your engine, see if the oil filter is still on. You never know, Jiffy lube might not have tightened it and it just popped off sending oil everywhere on the road making it super slick...I know sounds far fetched and improbable.
08-11-2005, 03:37 PM
#43
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you ever end up getting that business lisence?
08-11-2005, 04:13 PM
#44
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I'm glad to hear the OP is okay after what sounds like a pretty scary wreck.
However, I've gotta raise the BS flag on the description of events. Things just don't add up.
First, there's no way the nitrogen in the tires had anything to do with it. Normal air is 80% nitrogen to begin with. If you think the lack of a bit of oxygen and water vapor inside your tires is going to spin you out... yeah right.
Second, if the nitrogen filling process is computer controlled to a specific pressure, chances are that pressure is around 30 to 35 lbs, which is what most people run their street tires at, and is close to the recommended pressures for the WRX. If you have high-performance tires, you should have checked the pressures yourself, or made the guys running the system aware that your tires require 40 to 45 lbs of air. In addition as mentioned previously, S-03's wouldn't suddenly behave at 50 mph the way you described because they were +/- the recommended pressures.
Third, you admitted that the 1st turn you took in the car, it felt weird. Why wouldn't you immediately stop and check the tires!? And more importantly, why would you continue on your drive at a high pace!?
Which brings me to my fourth point. There's no way you were driving "gently" on a straight section of road, at 50 mph. I would be willing to guess you were probably going 90+, attempted to swerve around the rock, and the back-end came out. Then you oscillated several times trying to get the car under control, and ran out of road. If you had only been going 50, there is no way you could have kept enough momentum to fishtail 4 times... you would have stopped by then. Also, in order to flip a car 3 time end-over-end... well, that takes quite a bit of energy, which means, you were certainly well over 50 mph down that road.
So IMO, Jiffy Lube's in the clear. I think this was a driver-error accident. Most likely caused by excessive speed.
Finally, I hope the irony of this situation isn't lost on Ed and the rest of the general public. This is the guy that asks his customers to regularly exceed 100+ mph on public streets while tuning their cars. See what happens when you drive like that? If I were Ed, I'd think very hard about what I'm risking everytime I get into someone's car and ask them to drive like this. Ed, you survived this pretty bad wreck, you think you'll get lucky next time as well? You consider yourself pretty good at handling a low-traction situation, and if you keep to your story, this situation was only at 50 mph. What happens at 100, when your less-skilled customer swerves because of a squirrel? Seems like a pretty dangerous business.
BTW: My intent w/ this post is not to flame, or (re)start any sort of war over EQ Tuning. I'm just trying to put a little bit of a more realistic spin on this description of events for everyone to think about. After all, it would suck to lose another Suby, or a capable tuner for that matter, because of high-speed jack-assery. Take it to the track where there's run-off and safety barriers.
However, I've gotta raise the BS flag on the description of events. Things just don't add up.
First, there's no way the nitrogen in the tires had anything to do with it. Normal air is 80% nitrogen to begin with. If you think the lack of a bit of oxygen and water vapor inside your tires is going to spin you out... yeah right.
Second, if the nitrogen filling process is computer controlled to a specific pressure, chances are that pressure is around 30 to 35 lbs, which is what most people run their street tires at, and is close to the recommended pressures for the WRX. If you have high-performance tires, you should have checked the pressures yourself, or made the guys running the system aware that your tires require 40 to 45 lbs of air. In addition as mentioned previously, S-03's wouldn't suddenly behave at 50 mph the way you described because they were +/- the recommended pressures.
Third, you admitted that the 1st turn you took in the car, it felt weird. Why wouldn't you immediately stop and check the tires!? And more importantly, why would you continue on your drive at a high pace!?
Which brings me to my fourth point. There's no way you were driving "gently" on a straight section of road, at 50 mph. I would be willing to guess you were probably going 90+, attempted to swerve around the rock, and the back-end came out. Then you oscillated several times trying to get the car under control, and ran out of road. If you had only been going 50, there is no way you could have kept enough momentum to fishtail 4 times... you would have stopped by then. Also, in order to flip a car 3 time end-over-end... well, that takes quite a bit of energy, which means, you were certainly well over 50 mph down that road.
So IMO, Jiffy Lube's in the clear. I think this was a driver-error accident. Most likely caused by excessive speed.
Finally, I hope the irony of this situation isn't lost on Ed and the rest of the general public. This is the guy that asks his customers to regularly exceed 100+ mph on public streets while tuning their cars. See what happens when you drive like that? If I were Ed, I'd think very hard about what I'm risking everytime I get into someone's car and ask them to drive like this. Ed, you survived this pretty bad wreck, you think you'll get lucky next time as well? You consider yourself pretty good at handling a low-traction situation, and if you keep to your story, this situation was only at 50 mph. What happens at 100, when your less-skilled customer swerves because of a squirrel? Seems like a pretty dangerous business.
BTW: My intent w/ this post is not to flame, or (re)start any sort of war over EQ Tuning. I'm just trying to put a little bit of a more realistic spin on this description of events for everyone to think about. After all, it would suck to lose another Suby, or a capable tuner for that matter, because of high-speed jack-assery. Take it to the track where there's run-off and safety barriers.
08-11-2005, 04:22 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by sperry
jack-assery