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Old 11-20-2011 | 11:28 PM
  #421  
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Originally Posted by wrxBRAH
considering that his face was the ending point of hendos overhand right anyway, thats a **** poor cop out. anyway it was a tie in my eyes because hendo didnt have a 10-8 round and some of the past ufc scoring proves it shouldve been. im too drunk right now to follow up on my claims but i can tommo0row morning.
I don't know if you yourself train, but put it this way: a common counter to a low or mid kick is a long straight or overhand, especially if the kick is caught or parried (or even eaten, if you're not too rattled from the hit). Also, if the kick is instead checked, it is common to fire a long straight or overhand counter as the checking leg in put down as well. This is in addition to the danger of opening yourself up to a takedown if the kick is thrown with less than optimal timing or distancing. Considering that all the Chute Boxe guys are not the most technical strikers (note that I didn't say that they are not proficient), it's just basic fight logic that Rua would be leery of allowing Hendo maximum use of his 2 strongest weapons. That he was caught with a right overhand later in the game says nothing about Rua's lack of skill, but everything about Hendo's ability. In other words, if you knew there was chance of something bad happening, wouldn't you try to minimize it? And if it really did happen, could you fault yourself? My 2 cents as a hobbyist fighter.

Originally Posted by CaliSuby
Not too bad for those nasty knees he took to the face.. Lol I was actually thinking his nose was going to end up like Brandon Veras
Seriously, I thought that nose was gone looking at the post-fight cleanup photos.
Old 11-21-2011 | 12:49 AM
  #422  
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I like how you think Choku Dori.... 
Old 11-21-2011 | 12:52 AM
  #423  
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Haha, thanks! I still have all my front teeth and my jaw is still (relatively) straight, so I know what I was taught works.
Old 11-21-2011 | 11:16 AM
  #424  
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Originally Posted by Choku Dori
I don't know if you yourself train, but put it this way: a common counter to a low or mid kick is a long straight or overhand, especially if the kick is caught or parried (or even eaten, if you're not too rattled from the hit). Also, if the kick is instead checked, it is common to fire a long straight or overhand counter as the checking leg in put down as well. This is in addition to the danger of opening yourself up to a takedown if the kick is thrown with less than optimal timing or distancing. Considering that all the Chute Boxe guys are not the most technical strikers (note that I didn't say that they are not proficient), it's just basic fight logic that Rua would be leery of allowing Hendo maximum use of his 2 strongest weapons. That he was caught with a right overhand later in the game says nothing about Rua's lack of skill, but everything about Hendo's ability. In other words, if you knew there was chance of something bad happening, wouldn't you try to minimize it? And if it really did happen, could you fault yourself? My 2 cents as a hobbyist fighter.


Seriously, I thought that nose was gone looking at the post-fight cleanup photos.

Isn't the other possible counter to that kick a take down... in several different manners? Alla Silva... catching it and kicking out the plant foot (he's also used the strait right VERY effectively (Griffin). Or catching it and picking it up and pushing person to the gage and or taking them down... This being a wrestlers natural move.

Maybe he was more afraid of that?

Who knows.
Old 11-21-2011 | 12:37 PM
  #425  
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Originally Posted by Choku Dori
I don't know if you yourself train, but put it this way: a common counter to a low or mid kick is a long straight or overhand, especially if the kick is caught or parried (or even eaten, if you're not too rattled from the hit). Also, if the kick is instead checked, it is common to fire a long straight or overhand counter as the checking leg in put down as well. This is in addition to the danger of opening yourself up to a takedown if the kick is thrown with less than optimal timing or distancing. Considering that all the Chute Boxe guys are not the most technical strikers (note that I didn't say that they are not proficient), it's just basic fight logic that Rua would be leery of allowing Hendo maximum use of his 2 strongest weapons. That he was caught with a right overhand later in the game says nothing about Rua's lack of skill, but everything about Hendo's ability. In other words, if you knew there was chance of something bad happening, wouldn't you try to minimize it? And if it really did happen, could you fault yourself? My 2 cents as a hobbyist fighter.


Seriously, I thought that nose was gone looking at the post-fight cleanup photos.
Well when he faced Machida who's entire style is countering, he had no issue getting the kicks in and even the knees to the thigh in the clinch. Maybe he was scared because Dan is a wrestler? No idea..
Old 11-21-2011 | 12:57 PM
  #426  
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Originally Posted by wrxBRAH
Well when he faced Machida who's entire style is countering, he had no issue getting the kicks in and even the knees to the thigh in the clinch. Maybe he was scared because Dan is a wrestler? No idea..
That was my thought. That he didn't want to end up on the bottom of Dan.
Old 11-21-2011 | 01:07 PM
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It's all in the game plan you come in with... I'm sure he would change his approach towards the fight if they fought again... Hendo has his opening.. Wonder Amy time he swing that right hand, he swings it with KO intentions..and leans in while stoping the left hand... Rua had a good idea, his timing was just off.. But anytime hendo threw the big right Rua would move right and come up with a "right upper cut"... Came at times but that's how hendo will go down... I still think JJ AND SILVA would crush him... And his cardio unless it get better.. Hus good for 3round fights...
Old 11-21-2011 | 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Isn't the other possible counter to that kick a take down... in several different manners? Alla Silva... catching it and kicking out the plant foot (he's also used the strait right VERY effectively (Griffin). Or catching it and picking it up and pushing person to the gage and or taking them down... This being a wrestlers natural move.

Maybe he was more afraid of that?

Who knows.
I concur with this hypothesis as well and mentioned it earlier. I was specifically addressing concerns regarding Hendo's power right that wrxBRAH had brought up in his post.

Originally Posted by wrxBRAH
Well when he faced Machida who's entire style is countering, he had no issue getting the kicks in and even the knees to the thigh in the clinch. Maybe he was scared because Dan is a wrestler? No idea..
Ahhh, Machida is a whole different animal altogether. That wide, side-standing Shotokan stance of his leaves his lead leg much further out than other striking stylists (i.e. Muay Thai, boxing, Kyokushin karate, etc.). You would think that his gyaku tsuki would make up the distance, but the lead leg is integral for a strong gyaku tsuki, and if it's kicked, it hampers the gyaku tsuki's effectiveness. I'd even venture to say that if Machida used his oi tsuki or mae geri for distance control instead of constant reliance on the gyaku tsuki and tai sabaki, that the fight could have gone very differently. Shotokan is so different than typical MMA striking that I don't think one can safely compare it to other forms of striking. As for Machida's reaction in the clinch: well, sumo can only get you so far, especially when knees are involved haha.
I don't mean this post to be dismissive of Machida as he is one of the very few Shotokan karateka who can work effectively in full contact situations, but at the same time I think that his game is somewhat one-dimensional, albeit very unorthodox by typical MMA standards. My 2 cents, as always.
Old 11-22-2011 | 08:49 AM
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I'm not a big fan of Machida.... Good fighter but his technical style makes him
Boring...
Old 11-22-2011 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Choku Dori
I concur with this hypothesis as well and mentioned it earlier. I was specifically addressing concerns regarding Hendo's power right that wrxBRAH had brought up in his post.


Ahhh, Machida is a whole different animal altogether. That wide, side-standing Shotokan stance of his leaves his lead leg much further out than other striking stylists (i.e. Muay Thai, boxing, Kyokushin karate, etc.). You would think that his gyaku tsuki would make up the distance, but the lead leg is integral for a strong gyaku tsuki, and if it's kicked, it hampers the gyaku tsuki's effectiveness. I'd even venture to say that if Machida used his oi tsuki or mae geri for distance control instead of constant reliance on the gyaku tsuki and tai sabaki, that the fight could have gone very differently. Shotokan is so different than typical MMA striking that I don't think one can safely compare it to other forms of striking. As for Machida's reaction in the clinch: well, sumo can only get you so far, especially when knees are involved haha.
I don't mean this post to be dismissive of Machida as he is one of the very few Shotokan karateka who can work effectively in full contact situations, but at the same time I think that his game is somewhat one-dimensional, albeit very unorthodox by typical MMA standards. My 2 cents, as always.
Your 2 cents always make me learn a lot more. Keep it coming =)
Old 11-22-2011 | 02:46 PM
  #431  
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also didnt think about this till i saw it mentioned on sherdog but the lack of kicks and knees might be because hes had 3 major knee surgeries and doesnt want to risk another long injury.
Old 11-22-2011 | 02:49 PM
  #432  
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Originally Posted by CaliSuby
I'm not a big fan of Machida.... Good fighter but his technical style makes him
Boring...
I hear ya man.
The only thing that makes him interesting to watch is the fact that his style is unmistakably Shotokan. If he fought evasively like he does with a standard Muay Thai or kickboxing style, I think he would've been booed out of the octagon months ago haha!
It's not that Shotokan is by nature evasive, but the style that Machida's family does definitely is -- probably great for self-defense, but not exactly entertaining.
Some interesting examples of aggressive Shotokan:

Sparring starts at 1:19

About the only thing I can really fault most Shotokan karateka for is the way they keep their hands so low; if you notice, Machida has remedied that by keeping his hands high for better head defense. Also, very few Shotokan schools practice with this amount of contact anymore. The point sparring system only encourages practitioners to pull punches, even in a real fight.

Originally Posted by wrxBRAH
Your 2 cents always make me learn a lot more. Keep it coming =)
Haha, I'm just a hobbyist, but thanks! Glad to be of service!
Old 12-02-2011 | 09:52 PM
  #433  
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Okay.... Miller vs Bisping.. Where is it gonna show? I'm really hoping miller whoops this guy like hendo.. He is so disrespectful, you guys watch the weigh ins?
Old 12-03-2011 | 01:03 AM
  #434  
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WAR MAYHEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 12-03-2011 | 12:16 PM
  #435  
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Where is it gonna show? I wanna watch this fight! Does anybody know if this fight is on the same fight card as TUF? who is showing it?time?

Last edited by CaliSuby; 12-03-2011 at 12:21 PM.


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