View Poll Results: Catless or w/cat?
Catless
5
35.71%
w/cat
9
64.29%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll
Turbo-back: Catless or w/cat
05-05-2003 | 01:44 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Turbo-back: Catless or w/cat
Hey Peoples,
This is just a poll to see how many Bay Area peeps are running catless vs. high flow cat turbo back exhaust systems. The reason I am posting this is I am getting ready to put on an uppipe, downpipe, and cat-back (hence turbo back) and I don't really like the design of any of the down pipes that come with a high flow cat.
Please don't incriminate yourself if you don't want to
. You don't have to post a reply, just vote on the poll
.
This is just a poll to see how many Bay Area peeps are running catless vs. high flow cat turbo back exhaust systems. The reason I am posting this is I am getting ready to put on an uppipe, downpipe, and cat-back (hence turbo back) and I don't really like the design of any of the down pipes that come with a high flow cat.
Please don't incriminate yourself if you don't want to
. You don't have to post a reply, just vote on the poll.
05-05-2003 | 03:17 PM
#3
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From: ...a craphole in No.County San Diego
Car Info: MMVI AW WRX STI
For a while I had a gutted stock uppipe, Bosal DP (catless), and the prodrive muffler (stock 3rd cat and midpipe). I loved the low torque and the earlier spooling of this setup.
I figured why not get rid of the 3rd cat...so I put in the Stromung 3rd cat eliminator. I didn't really notice much more power, if any, but the downsides were such that I decided to put the 3rd cat back in. The car stunk when it was catless, it was a fair amount louder (not too loud but bordering on turning a cop's head), and I was just nervous about getting caught catless (not to mention getting the environmental guilt).
I don't regret going back to the single stock 3rd cat. I think high flow cats are in sort of a no-mans land...sure they flow better, but then they can't possibly be cleaning the air as well...I'd rather just go catless.
That's my story.
I'd say that if you really plan on upgrading your car seriously (bigger turbo, etc)...then you could certainly benefit from going catless. Otherwise it's just extra smog I have to breathe
I figured why not get rid of the 3rd cat...so I put in the Stromung 3rd cat eliminator. I didn't really notice much more power, if any, but the downsides were such that I decided to put the 3rd cat back in. The car stunk when it was catless, it was a fair amount louder (not too loud but bordering on turning a cop's head), and I was just nervous about getting caught catless (not to mention getting the environmental guilt).
I don't regret going back to the single stock 3rd cat. I think high flow cats are in sort of a no-mans land...sure they flow better, but then they can't possibly be cleaning the air as well...I'd rather just go catless.
That's my story.
I'd say that if you really plan on upgrading your car seriously (bigger turbo, etc)...then you could certainly benefit from going catless. Otherwise it's just extra smog I have to breathe
05-05-2003 | 09:58 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
I don't have a turboback yet, but when I do I WILL have a cat.
It's not worth the pollution to me. One cat is a necessity to me after seeing how bad air pollution can get if people don't care (Mexico City, Naples, L.A. in the 80s etc...)
Talk all you want about how this or that pollutes worse, the fact of the matter is that it does make a difference.
And I'll probably make that cat a metal substrate cat to minimize cold start pollution and maximize flow. They are costlier, but to me it is worth it.
xcceleration.com sells a downpipe and 3rd cat replacement that are metal substrate cats, Random now makes metal substrate universal replacements, and the Zerosports downpipe w/cat is a metal substrate cat (and SUPER expensive).
As far as divorced wastegate goes, I've seen enough issues with boost control with divorced wastegate downpipes (several documented cases on both scoobynet and nasioc) that I will be going bellmouth.
It's not worth the pollution to me. One cat is a necessity to me after seeing how bad air pollution can get if people don't care (Mexico City, Naples, L.A. in the 80s etc...)
Talk all you want about how this or that pollutes worse, the fact of the matter is that it does make a difference.
And I'll probably make that cat a metal substrate cat to minimize cold start pollution and maximize flow. They are costlier, but to me it is worth it.
xcceleration.com sells a downpipe and 3rd cat replacement that are metal substrate cats, Random now makes metal substrate universal replacements, and the Zerosports downpipe w/cat is a metal substrate cat (and SUPER expensive).
As far as divorced wastegate goes, I've seen enough issues with boost control with divorced wastegate downpipes (several documented cases on both scoobynet and nasioc) that I will be going bellmouth.
05-05-2003 | 11:38 PM
#6
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Posts: 3,928
From: ...a craphole in No.County San Diego
Car Info: MMVI AW WRX STI
Originally posted by Steppin Razor
the bosal has the totally separated wastegate pipe, right?
how do you like that sucker?
the bosal has the totally separated wastegate pipe, right?
how do you like that sucker?
Concilian...what issues with boost control? Are you talking about creep? Nothing beats the divorced wastegate
05-06-2003 | 02:25 AM
#7
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There have been significantly MORE issues with boost creep with a divorced wastegate than with bellmouth downpipes.
dug-e-fresh and john banks have both noted this on nasioc. Mr. Banks and others have noted the issues on Scoobynet.
Part of the issues are with the vf wastegate design, which RiftsWRX has noted problems with on his stroker and Austin had issues with on his extremely free flowing machine, but if you're getting a downpipe for the stock flange, you are pretty much stuck with the vf exhaust housing designs for the most part. This is probably the larger problem, but the most difficult to deal with.
I know theoretically divorced wastegate should be better for flow. In this case it may be TOO good, as the exhaust would rather flow through the turbine. In practice it seems to be easier to just go with a bellmouth design.
There are plenty of examples out there if you look around. people with wastegates wired wide open and no cats can't seem to keep the boost down with divorced wastegate downpipes and large IHI turbos.
Scoobynet thread:
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=203877
dug-e-fresh and john banks have both noted this on nasioc. Mr. Banks and others have noted the issues on Scoobynet.
Part of the issues are with the vf wastegate design, which RiftsWRX has noted problems with on his stroker and Austin had issues with on his extremely free flowing machine, but if you're getting a downpipe for the stock flange, you are pretty much stuck with the vf exhaust housing designs for the most part. This is probably the larger problem, but the most difficult to deal with.
I know theoretically divorced wastegate should be better for flow. In this case it may be TOO good, as the exhaust would rather flow through the turbine. In practice it seems to be easier to just go with a bellmouth design.
There are plenty of examples out there if you look around. people with wastegates wired wide open and no cats can't seem to keep the boost down with divorced wastegate downpipes and large IHI turbos.
Scoobynet thread:
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=203877
Last edited by Concillian; 05-06-2003 at 02:45 AM.
05-06-2003 | 10:46 AM
#9
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Posts: n/a
I would rather go with a cat, however there is a problem. I have been thus far unable to find a bellmouth design downpipe with a cat that I can hook up to a standard cat back system. Quite a few companies have one that will bolt up to the factory midpipe which contains the third cat. But it seems pretty pointless to me to hook up a nice big free flowing downpipe to the stock POS midpipe
. These same companys offer a downpipe + midpipe w/hi-flow cat that unfortunately will not bolt up to a standard cat back system. They want you to purchase their cat back to go with it
. Why can't I find what I want
.
Plus the systems w/cat usually cost a lot more
. These same companys offer a downpipe + midpipe w/hi-flow cat that unfortunately will not bolt up to a standard cat back system. They want you to purchase their cat back to go with it. Why can't I find what I want.Plus the systems w/cat usually cost a lot more
05-06-2003 | 12:16 PM
#10
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From: ...a craphole in No.County San Diego
Car Info: MMVI AW WRX STI
Scoobysport is bellmouth, and will bolt to the third cat just fine. Then you can change the catback to whatever you want.
Ps...The stock 3rd cat is it's own pipe, and is not usually referred to as the "midpipe". It's downpipe-->3rdcat-->midpipe-->axleback. Some companies' downpipes (HKS, Helix, MRT, others) replace both the downpipe AND the third cat. Bosal and scoobysport downpipes only replace the downpipe.
Ps...The stock 3rd cat is it's own pipe, and is not usually referred to as the "midpipe". It's downpipe-->3rdcat-->midpipe-->axleback. Some companies' downpipes (HKS, Helix, MRT, others) replace both the downpipe AND the third cat. Bosal and scoobysport downpipes only replace the downpipe.
Last edited by mexicanpizza; 05-06-2003 at 12:18 PM.
05-06-2003 | 12:41 PM
#11
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Posts: 1,804
From: Oakland/El Cerrito, CA
Car Info: Evolution VIII
Originally posted by ShadowKnight
I would rather go with a cat, however there is a problem. I have been thus far unable to find a bellmouth design downpipe with a cat that I can hook up to a standard cat back system. Quite a few companies have one that will bolt up to the factory midpipe which contains the third cat. But it seems pretty pointless to me to hook up a nice big free flowing downpipe to the stock POS midpipe. These same companys offer a downpipe + midpipe w/hi-flow cat that unfortunately will not bolt up to a standard cat back system. They want you to purchase their cat back to go with it. Why can't I find what I want.
Plus the systems w/cat usually cost a lot more
I would rather go with a cat, however there is a problem. I have been thus far unable to find a bellmouth design downpipe with a cat that I can hook up to a standard cat back system. Quite a few companies have one that will bolt up to the factory midpipe which contains the third cat. But it seems pretty pointless to me to hook up a nice big free flowing downpipe to the stock POS midpipe
. These same companys offer a downpipe + midpipe w/hi-flow cat that unfortunately will not bolt up to a standard cat back system. They want you to purchase their cat back to go with it. Why can't I find what I want.Plus the systems w/cat usually cost a lot more
peace out
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