Toyota FT-86 concept at Geneva (Conglomerated FRS/BRZ thread)

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Old 07-20-2011 | 11:45 AM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
VRT I believe that is totally incorrect. Looks like the new impreza to me.

Theres been 2 spied dealios on the ring, 1 which looked different than the fr-s scion slightly, and sported plates from the Subaru garage at the ring, where the other one was toyotas garage. Neither of those cars looked anything like the pictures/video you posted.

Toyota did say their concept was 95% complete so pretty sure fr-s will look neato.
I dont know why you think that, first of all its clearly the same subaru test mule we've seen for the more than a year now, and its supposed to look different from the Scion FRS, its going to be subarus version so its going to have their own body on it.




and the biggest tip its not an impreza its got 2 doors

the 2010 impreza has already been released to the press fleets and will go on sale soon, why would they be driving it around in with all the camo?
Old 07-20-2011 | 11:48 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by jvick125
You're correct, it did pretty much have an impreza front end. The two cars I saw yesterday were the same that appeared on AutoBlog last September. From checking the video and pictures I shot yesterday compared to what others have posted about the FT-86, I'm 100% positive it's what I saw and what Matt posted.
so wait, are you saying Slow is correct or that you and matt are correct? because he doesnt think its the subaru version of the FT86/FRS, he thinks its just the new impreza.
Old 07-20-2011 | 01:47 PM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Krinkov
so wait, are you saying Slow is correct or that you and matt are correct? because he doesnt think its the subaru version of the FT86/FRS, he thinks its just the new impreza.
I've seen that car for too long, it's been claimed to be more than one thing to me. Also remember Subaru is indeed splitting the impreza line, and hopes to have a couple new models. Also the cars do not seem to match dimensions, frs/toyobaru.

Krinkov I think that because zero percent of the concepts that were legitimately articled, or legitimate articles showed this as subarus toyobaru concept.

Indeed I believe this to be the TOYOBARU concept;
See the plates "MZ" thats subaru garage. Search for the fr-s spy shot, youll see a similar looking camo registered to toyotas nurburgring garage "dau".





FYI from this guys post it seems the Subaru is indeed using different engine internals and will probably be faster.

Last edited by slow04wrx; 07-20-2011 at 02:35 PM.
Old 07-20-2011 | 04:35 PM
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Yeah the whole things gotten totally confusing, but it goes like this:

They will be basically the same car underneath different skin, Scions is the FRS that we have all seen what is basically the final productionthat will come out next year.

The subaru version will come out a year later and as of yet has no name but its clear after seeing the new impreza 2012 design languaes that the camoed version above which is the same car from the ring a year ago is going to be the subaru version. The only reason the autobloggers mentioned it was the FT86 was none of us knew enough about them the differentiate, its clear now though what the scion version looks so that makes this one the suby for sure.

Also I'm not sure where the idea of the impreza or wrx coupe came from, unless it was misinterpreted from seeing this same test mule. Though that would be illogical for subaru to have two competing coupes, they're already gambling on this one.
Old 07-20-2011 | 08:50 PM
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I read a quote from an article that was posted on club4ag.com's website forum on the FT86 that Toyota re-casted the EJ20 engine and internals to their(Toyota) standards. I'll find the post real quick and edit...

Here's a quote from club4ag.com
link to thread:http://forums.club4ag.com/zerothread?id=95050&page=2

It actually looks better. Take the Original FT86 concept, and add a little more flavor from Scion project's FRS Concept, then smooth down the lines so that it's less tuner looking, and more OEM finesse. Retain the 2000GT C-Pillar, sharpen the tail. And that's how a final version will be. (That's all I can tell you at this point.)

The engine? It's still EJ20 based shape. But Toyota re-casted everything, even down to the engine block with a new design, and with the Yamaha acoustics assigned to make every pulse, beat, and soul of air and vibration to become something to spice performance and tactile feel. Not much is exactly shared with the Subaru engine except the flat four configurations. However, the external mounting points remain the same as the Subaru EJ20, shared for very obvious reasons. That is so YOU can use a Subaru engine to swap if you PREFER the Subaru engine for racing. Why bother with complex fabrication, if Subaru has something you can use from 11 years of WRC?

Everything about this car is BASIC, and PURE.
It's thought out for the aftermarket builders, racing operations, and not without YOU as enthusiast, the grassroots racers, custom builders, show car builders, and parking lot meet goers.

Take for example. The front dash has a beautiful sweeping line, and yet the front corners recessed into the front window base. I asked why... and Tada san replied... "It's so you can install a roll cage to regulations for many venues, without cutting up this dash"

There are many features that go deep into the same thinking... And although such matters of owner-customizations are in place, the vehicle is very refined as is out of the box. Never before, has such low-cost niche-car seen so much research, so much development budget, and resourced with so many talents.

It was met with many challenges of financiers, and business end departments due to the era, and in the wake of many events, from dismal sports car sales in general, Lehman Crisis rendering global spending decrease, and even natural disasters. Large corporations, even Toyota, are not immune to current trends of operating under strict adherence to the speculative finance and rules of the governments and stockholders.

However and despite the unforgiving global economic climate, in the last 5 years of development of the FT86, the best minds converged for this project. Mr.Haraguchi initially to select the key individuals fir for this task, and Tada assigned ultimately, oversee the project. Both are people from MR2 and AE86 projects in the past as well as 2nd Prius and other successful cars with future mind. To add to this, eventually along the process came, the resources and technology brought from the Lexus LFA program, Teams from Subaru including WRC minds of STi, and the whole time, forced and secured by the CEO of Toyota, regarding this as his own favorite development. Akio Toyoda is a proficient and enthusiastic driver and a big fan of this car, often dropping in to test drive it.

Akio has recently shocked the staff on Nurburgring, Testing out of the blue, and drew a whole crowd of officials in panic when he strapped himself into the FT86, and started to chase down a LFA Nur-Edition that was also testing concurrently by a different department. Slipping the tail masterfully around the wet Nurburgring track....

He loves the FT86 as much as we do...
When was the last time you saw a CEO of an auto firm do THAT!!
Well I just did... in a video no less.
Yes, Akio strapped in by TAKATA belts, grinning and jerking at the wheel in quick bursts of counter-steer, cooking the Nurburgring to his own liking, and screaming past the famous Castle down the last straight back to the pits as if he was shouting to the ghosts that live in the old castle. That was an awe-inspiring footage. The usually calm Mr.Toyoda seemed to be as epic as Mel Gibson shouting “FREEDOM”

Mr.Tada continues to travel, mostly in secret cloak, but magically appearing out of the blue in conversations like this afforded to people who can represent the fans and enthusiasm, that is all of us. He is almost like the Jason Bourne of Toyota Sports car development as I see it. Always in close contact with the CEO boss, taking care of his projects covertly at times, but free minded to conjure a car for the future, fending off opinions of conventions and bureaus. Mr.Tada, and his team, logged thousands of miles in the FT86 test mule, and he says it’s STILL not finished... 5 years, and still perfecting it every day, from materials of rubber bushings to see if steering feel can be improved or gas pedal to react more passionately, and details like equipment choices on the interior. In fact, this meeting was immediately after he was shaking it down in Arizona in the massive heat...to see it through that this car will outlast the most abusive of us in what he calls madness. I assume that to be our crazy tendencies to attend silly events where we burn rear tires all day long. But yes, he has that in mind for us…

What if I told you that FT86 has NO CD player, and no Navigation screen? It's entirely possible...
He figured we'd all have smart-phones to tell us where we're going by 2012, and all we need is an FM radio to tell us if the world is ending. And for all other times on the road, he's like us to listen to your favorite iPOD, or the beautiful sounds emanating from the exhaust system specifically designed for this car by the best ears at Yamaha Acoustic Instruments company. All this, while sitting in seats made in collaboration with the best aftermarket and OE racing operations and sports car makers.

Affordable, yes, that is one of the first priorities. However, nothing about the car from what I saw in the photos looked CHEAP... The car may be affordable, but all the key ingredients like simple, functional interior, wrapped in very neat fabrics?

All of this and much more I can't say... All of this and MUCH MUCH more...

If AE86 was the starting point, and you had 30 years of technology change, and tools and toys we enjoy, mash it all into a car with dimensions nearly exactly matching the AE86. And taking NONE of the soul out from the AE86. What do you get?

I call it my dream car. And Club4AG will live on forever...
Because the sports car to enjoy from Toyota is BACK!

Last edited by Alliedforces86; 07-20-2011 at 08:54 PM.
Old 07-20-2011 | 10:56 PM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Alliedforces86
I read a quote from an article that was posted on club4ag.com's website forum on the FT86 that Toyota re-casted the EJ20 engine and internals to their(Toyota) standards. I'll find the post real quick and edit...

Here's a quote from club4ag.com
link to thread:Club4AG Forum Topics: FT86: FRS Update. 7/15/2011
wow, that was alot of horse**** in there

Where to begin, well everything that guy states is called into serious question right off the top...

It actually looks better. Take the Original FT86 concept, and add a little more flavor from Scion project's FRS Concept, then smooth down the lines so that it's less tuner looking, and more OEM finesse. Retain the 2000GT C-Pillar, sharpen the tail. And that's how a final version will be. (That's all I can tell you at this point.)
What?
This guy is still talking about it like there was ever two different cars, the old FT86 and also the FRS that are somehow going to come together into a totally different car within the next few months that they havent shown us yet, lol.

The FT86 was only the original concept from 3-4 years ago, and the FRS that we've been seeing at the auto shows this year IS THE CAR that is going to be sold, period. The only thing thats going to be different is its not going to be slammed on 20"s with giant brakes that all auto show cars seem required to have nowadays.

As far as the engine part...

The engine? It's still EJ20 based shape. But Toyota re-casted everything, even down to the engine block with a new design...
First off, how come when i google anything about this the only thing I find is a link back to this one post on club4AG? Every other news outlet and autoblog state in no uncertain terms that Subaru is making EJ20 engines and the only thing toyota is adding is their D4S direct injection system. The idea that Toyota would at the last minute completely re-engineer the motor for no stated reason, and then create, from scratch, an entirely new engine production line for a boxster motor that they've never attempted to make before in their entire history, is so beyond any buisness sense and logic that you should just stop reading there.

But then he finishes that with this.

However, the external mounting points remain the same as the Subaru EJ20, shared for very obvious reasons. That is so YOU can use a Subaru engine to swap if you PREFER the Subaru engine for racing.
LOL. yeah, because that totally something toyota would do for all of us tuners.

Okay I did stop reading after that. thanks for the laughs club4AG
Old 07-21-2011 | 12:38 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by Krinkov
wow, that was alot of horse**** in there

Where to begin, well everything that guy states is called into serious question right off the top...



What?
This guy is still talking about it like there was ever two different cars, the old FT86 and also the FRS that are somehow going to come together into a totally different car within the next few months that they havent shown us yet, lol.

The FT86 was only the original concept from 3-4 years ago, and the FRS that we've been seeing at the auto shows this year IS THE CAR that is going to be sold, period. The only thing thats going to be different is its not going to be slammed on 20"s with giant brakes that all auto show cars seem required to have nowadays.

As far as the engine part...



First off, how come when i google anything about this the only thing I find is a link back to this one post on club4AG? Every other news outlet and autoblog state in no uncertain terms that Subaru is making EJ20 engines and the only thing toyota is adding is their D4S direct injection system. The idea that Toyota would at the last minute completely re-engineer the motor for no stated reason, and then create, from scratch, an entirely new engine production line for a boxster motor that they've never attempted to make before in their entire history, is so beyond any buisness sense and logic that you should just stop reading there.

But then he finishes that with this.



LOL. yeah, because that totally something toyota would do for all of us tuners.

Okay I did stop reading after that. thanks for the laughs club4AG
I dunno he is the owner of the site. Pretty sure hes right. I also read about the yamaha thing elsewhere. We will see I guess. Also he just posted that.

Subaru has said they will have 4 new models by 2016. Also the wrx line is suppose to split, I realize a photo associated with that information was false, but I believe the information is correct.
I still don't believe that photo/video is the subaru version.
Old 07-21-2011 | 12:45 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
I dunno he is the owner of the site. Pretty sure hes right.
Um, I own a site.

Oh, and there is a blog attached to it too, with some exciting new information!
http://blog.mattbasile.net/?p=15

Last edited by VRT MBasile; 07-21-2011 at 12:51 AM.
Old 07-21-2011 | 12:51 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
Um, I own a site.
I totally understand that point. Was just saying he isn't a Random poster on there, incase you guys thought that was the case.

Anyways that subaru is ugly as crap. I sure hope thats not it or its a fake front bumper
Old 07-21-2011 | 12:54 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
I totally understand that point. Was just saying he isn't a Random poster on there, incase you guys thought that was the case.

Anyways that subaru is ugly as crap. I sure hope thats not it or its a fake front bumper
But Subarus are always ugly as crap!
Old 07-21-2011 | 12:58 AM
  #221  
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I know thats why I was psyched on them being identical but with that sweet fr-s look. If subaru built it so it didnt' feel like a muted turd, but it looked cool like the fr-s id be stoked.
Old 07-21-2011 | 01:16 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
But Subarus are always ugly as crap!
Old 07-21-2011 | 01:35 AM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
Um, I own a site.

Oh, and there is a blog attached to it too, with some exciting new information!
http://blog.mattbasile.net/?p=15
Matt he was qouting/referring to my postt where I quoted the statement from that moto-P guy from club4AG, not to your previous post.

Jeez this thread is getting about as confusing as this damn car
Old 07-21-2011 | 01:46 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by Krinkov
Matt he was qouting/referring to my postt where I quoted the statement from that moto-P guy from club4AG, not to your previous post.

Jeez this thread is getting about as confusing as this damn car
My point was that owning a site does not necessarily make one an expert on a subject.

I was only 51% serial.

Last edited by VRT MBasile; 07-21-2011 at 01:49 AM.
Old 07-21-2011 | 02:09 AM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by VRT MBasile
My point was that owning a site does not necessarily make one an expert on a subject.

I was only 51% serial.
okay, didnt catch that And yeah its not even a statement from the owner, its a statement from someone on the development team, that the owner posted. I can believe that its from the actual guy on the development team but the things that he stated are dubious at best.

its amazing the amount of confusion, speculation, and mis-information theres been surrounding this car, and its all because they are releasing almost no information or specifications on it even though its coming out right around the corner, I wouldnt be surprised if the press cars are about to go out.

Think about any sports car thats come out in at least the last five years, by this point in its release cycle we've already had all the specs you were going to find in its brochure, with the FRS, nothing. Remember when the GTR came out, by this long before release we had all the specs, were reading about its AWD layout, its hydroformed aluminum doors we were watching videos of it lap The Ring for christ sakes! They do to build "Shut up and take my money!" excitement, but the entire internet cant even seem to decide on what what motors even in the car.

Clearly theres some reason they're not comfortable releasing any specs on it, and I dont think thats a very good sign.



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