Originally Posted by wombatsauce

This is awesome, and IMHO shows that you are actually interested in answers rather than just another ignorant detractor throwing illogical stones.

IMHO, the argument is not "it's not as bad as alcohol/tobacco so it should be legalized" but rather that it is not comparable to those things when looked at from the perspective of things that are harmful to us. We all can look even to our own lives for people who have hurt themselves and or others with alcohol, but you would be hard-pressed to find an actual real-life factual story of someone's life being harmed by the use of cannabis or someone else's in close proximity.

That being said, there will always be the person who says they never tried it, or did "so they know" and know of this one cousin's brother's auntie's former roomate who's "life was ruined by cannabis." There are first-hand experiences of people who said they were around friends who smoked. What I got out of that is there are some very sensitive, ignorant people out there - and copious amounts of bad data about cannabis.

This is depressing. Brucelee is right - do some research! Ed speaks some seriously sensible things about the subject as well. It is also interesting to consider the perspectives there - you have one person who was against it before until he took the time to do some research, and another who has personally experienced it in the course of life. Both make solid points that are logical, compared to some of the other crap in here.

I strongly believe that every single "bad experience" listed in this thread is the result of a personality rather than something that "cannabis made them do."

1. The people in line counting change were probably already stupid.

2. Your G/F's ex probably would do that anyway - worst case scenario getting drunk or stoned would make it more possible. Also, there are two sides to every story - what I mean here is you, nor she, knew whether or not he was stoned/drunk/huffing canned air or whatever. I have heard people describe others as being "stoned" who were clearly not - BUT - this person did not have a better/correct way to say it and perhaps someone would over-hear them and think that is what a "stoned" person does. Also, "stoned" used to describe drunk. Fun with history!

3. I would certainly hope not, but you have to consider people and how they behave. Have you been able to detect a difference in smokers? There are at least two very distinctive types - people who will instantly make a cig dissappear in the presence of a child, people that are obviously courteous and attentive to the fact they they are creating a harmful, stinky cloud around them. Then there are the people with varying degrees of "eff you" to all of this, people that blow smoke at others, leave butts around, and generally suck. The funny thing is I have known people like this, and it has far more to do with personality than a specific substance. If only we could make it illegal to be an ***-hole!

This - your number 3, is a very important question indeed, but - you also need to consider that there will be things, smells, out there in the world that you do not appreciate. My wife hates the smell of roasting coffee, but I quite like it. I grew up around cannabis - it, it's use, and users of such have been a part of my life since I can remember. The smell does not bother me, and when I am walking in a town somewhere and I smell it, I usually am interested to see who it is that is smoking mostly for my personal demographic entertainment. At the same time, I can completely see how the smell would bother you - as the smell of cigarettes and especially old smoke, or the smell in an elevator once a smoker enters bothers me. I don't think I would ever openly complain about this or say it were a reason to ban smoking, because we are all different - but that's just me. I mean, my neighbor drives a green new beetle and I hate that thing, but she loves it. I feel no reason to ban them even though I don't like it (plus it is not causing me any harm, aside from it's emissions of course).

Also I feel compelled to mention that with my experience around cannabis from childhood to what some would call adulthood, I have never experienced anyone who has had adverse affects in their life as a result of cannabis usage. I am sure that some of these people would have been more inspired and gotten more done, but who are we to judge? I had an aunt who died of lung cancer, my grandfather had heart issues that were linked to alcohol, and my mother was killed by a drunk driver when I was a child.

The way I was brought up, it was made abundantly clear that alcohol, cannabis, cigarettes, and things of that nature (even coffee for that matter) were adult things that I was not allowed to touch. When I was 18, my pops took me down to the beach and we smoked a J together and he told me that now it was up to me to make my own decisions, but he reminded me of the data that I had taken in over the years about how people act under the influence of ANYTHING as well as the personal experience of family members dying as a result of their and others' use of legal substances. He also told me to NEVER talk about it, because there are people that still buy into the "Reefer Madness" propaganda, and will categorize/label you based on their ignorance, fear, and abject need to place a label on things.

Like my friend's wife with her brother who's "life was ruined by cannabis" well - he was a bad person who did bad things and probably was even before he found cannabis, but - she needed a reason for it. The worst part about that are the people that also had no idea about cannabis, and took her seriously. "Wow, cannabis made your brother that way? WOW it must be terrible!" And this, is the problem.

There are people that are courteous, sensible and responsible, and there are people that are inconsiderate and lame. Sometimes, these behaviors can be amplified with alcohol, caffeine, and even cannabis. These people will always exist, and will make things worse for others whether they are drinking a 40, riding a horse, or smoking a joint.

Growing up on the Big Island of Hawaii, I have heard many stories about meth-heads and things of that nature. I do not believe I have known anyone who is/was a "meth-head" and I know nothing about it, beyond the stories I have heard. To me, it sounds like a vile evil potion that turns people into monsters. But this is just ignorance on my part.

As far as harm being caused to you with second hand smoke, well, that would have to be a lot of smoke. If you are like me, and I know I am, you have left your house before. Sometimes there are diesel trucks spewing smoke, cars that smell nasty (catless), and I mean - shoot, my dog's farts must be toxic. I would imagine that being behind all the traffic on 101 every day in my commute is a lot worse for me than the second-hand smoke I have inhaled, even if I didn't like it.

IMHO, to briefly answer your question about whether or not legalization would affect the lives of others who don't smoke. Well, in a perfect world - no. In this world - yes.

Remember, this post is worth what you paid for it. Also, I did not touch the items of medical usage, which I personally believe to be valid even though the system has let a lot of "recreational" folks through. I personally do not know the answer there, and agree that the current system does not meet the needs insofar as ensuring that the cannabis does not show up in the wrong hands. Again, I believe this boils down to people, accountability and personal responsibility.

I believe that Ed pointed out the largest barrier to legalization, and that is the ability to deduce levels of intoxication, preferably with a machine that spits out an answer so the human does not need to be required to think.

On top of that, I personally believe that legalization would help keep it out of the hands of children and such. This may be more ignorance on my part, but I have personal experience seeing friends in school get involved and have heard talks that correspond to this. For a kid, $50 is a good chunk of change. So, take a "dealer" with questionable morals. They recruit kids because they are bored, willing, and such, and has the kid distribute his product, and gives a $50 bonus, which blows the kids mind and has them coming back for more. Well, legalization would mean that dealer with questionable morals would have to get a real job, as he would not be able to compete price-wise anymore and at any rate, when people can buy it legally they are not going to bother with kids. Yes, to be clear, kids in school that were my age were selling cannabis to adults. I believe this happens all the time, and is "a thing" if you will. I believe this would essentially go away with legalization. From what I have heard, this situation makes it a lot easier for a kid to get a sack of cannabis than it is to get some alcohol or a pack of cigarettes. It would be nice if all of those were hard.

TL;DR: We all need to share this planet. It is what it is.